As I know that there are quite a large number of our customers who do not have access to the Internet, I have compiled another selection of 'postings' which have appeared on the P.W.B. Internet Discussion Group over the last few months.
I feel sure that this selection will be of interest as an addition to this P.W.B. Newsletter.
The P.W.B. Internet Discussion Group can be accessed via:-
12th January 2006 From Geoff Kait
Subject: Re: vibrations.
re vibration in CD players: mechanical noise generated by the spinning transport or other internal noise can often be dealt with effectively by chassis damping and/or damping the CD tray. Most vibration isolation type devices (stands, etc..) attempt to deal with an entirely different problem - vibration caused by Earth crust motion and other sources that enter the CD player through the floor. Air conditioners, footfalls, traffic, subways are some other examples. This low frequency, "seismic" type vibration is quite energetic, with frequencies throughout the range 0-20 Hz, and higher, but relatively *very low* in frequency. (The entire house is actually being shaken continuously).
These low frequency structural vibrations excite various items in the player, according to their natural frequencies (resonant frequencies). For example, the laser assembly in the CD player is suspended by a system of very small springs - this spring system has a natural freq. around 8 Hz or so. Thus any structural vibration w/ freq. around 8 Hz entering the CD player will excite the laser assembly itself.
For turntables, the natural freq. of the stylus, cartridge and tonearm are usually designed to be in the range 8-12 Hz, and are excited by low freq. structural vibration. The basic idea for using Most spring on mass systems in audio were borrowed from microscope stands that allow a person to view or photograph the slide without it moving all over the place.
BTW, It's relatively straightforward to demonstrate that very low freq. (seismic) vibrations that are the real culprit for audio, not the higher frequencies.
12th January 2006 From: Chris Porada
Subject: RE: Re: Geoff Kait's posting.
Geoff and others,
How does one go about damping the transport/tray? My Philips 963sa generates a horrible amount of noise when playing some discs, and if I put my finger on the front of the drawer, I can usually get the vibration to decrease considerably, so I know it's the transport making the sound.
Thanks for any help
13th January 2006 From: Geoff Kait
Subject: Re: Re: Geoff Kait's posting
Chris - not sure why the transport is so noisy; I think I recall having a similar problem that lubricating the spindle bearing with a light oil helped; might be worth a shot... requires very minor surgery to access the bearing... hope the noise goes away -
16th January 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: The story so far.
I am still foiling and creaming the whole house. I have also had a go at the car, mostly the inside. I attached SR foils to the fascia , the trims and to the doors. All of these have also been creamed as well as a small area on each pane of glass. I tried to Spiratube the accelerator but my car has a funny shape of moulding so I put it on the seat adjustment device. The CD autochanger under the back seat was creamed and foiled on the casing and also on the cartridge. Haven't done anything under the bonnet yet.
The upshot of this is a far greater clarity and a better semblance of stereo positioning. We were coming back from seeing the in-laws one weekend and I had Goldfrapp's 'Supernature' on. Track 10 (Time out from the world) is a great song and could be a contender for a Bond theme. There it was all spread out before me with the orchestration rising and swelling and the cellos(?) sawing away in a satisfyingly deep .All this from an untreated car copy disc! Another time we were driving along the motorway and Radio 2 was on. They played Aretha's 'I say a little prayer' and it was glorious. I've never heard it so good before, and all from a radio broadcast! (Interestingly, both events were heard at night, but I would add that the system sounds good during the day.) The memory foil is still 'burning a hole in my pocket' as it were. I took my goodies round to a friend's and had a go on his Jamo surround system If you are not aware, this is a very good starter system. The speakers are not very big but, after treatment, the system was really singing along nicely. My friends were more than happy with the results.
A far greater challenge is my friend Rob , who lives across the road from me. I call him a valve-hippy ( affectionately, of course). He is not averse to making his own valve amps and DACs and has experimented on making his own cables. I have talked to him at length on matters Hi-Fi and have tried to convert him on many occasions regarding freezing and the rest. Up until recently he remained recalcitrant. However, following a visit from a someone else he has started to come round. That someone else did a sort of blind test, the result of which showed that the 'treated ' system sounded better. The treatment turned out to be three Shun Mook Mpingo discs. 'AHA', said I, 'just think what it could sound like if you'd let me have half an hour with my stuff'. He has agreed and I will report back on the results.
In this month's Hi-Fi News KK talked about tweaks on his ListenUp page. Specifically mentioned was the Golden Sound GSIC chip. He says that it treats your CDs but he doesn't know how it works. Elsewhere in the magazine the Shun Mook discs are mentioned with only some vague puff about mechanical resonances. I am tempted to fire off an E- mail to the mag re P.W.B. Any thoughts?
That's all for now, folks.
17th January 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: The story so far
Good to hear of your adventures Brian.
As regards your final point it would be worth E-mailing Hi-Fi News, as I feel I am tarred with familiarity. Kessler makes many important points, such as on the state of the audio industry, but one thought never seems to reach their minds. There always seems to be an idea that Tweaks will destroy the industry and must be denigrated. I actually believe the reverse, as many would like to keep improving their system by any means - equipment upgrades or tweaks. Perhaps the manufacturers believe that if everyone saved their pennies, and not buy this or that, they would buy the latest products. But has there ever been a more difficult time to upgrade, unless you are exclusively analogue in your system? The repeated format wars (with the HD one about to get into full swing) leaves us all anxious. The rate of change in even HDMI means this years products will be obsolete within two years. Who is looking out for the consumer? Thank heavens for the suppliers of tweaks, as we can at least improve something that we can still use, until Messrs Gates and Jobs have carved up their territories, and Sony learn what the word 'customer' means. (I could go on about Sony's service depts.) If one can still find old magazines, one finds enthusiasts giving all sorts of tips, yet still aiming for their Linn/Naim system or equivalent. I know this sort of advice can be found in various forums, but I no longer even trust the magazines to know what products are worth auditioning, and so thank God for some of the competent, ethical dealers. Some enthusiasm still bubbles in the retailers, although they are bugged by the suppliers.
So in addition to apologising for this rant, do E-mail Hi-Fi News, and let's see what comes of it.
As for the car, all foils work on the bodywork, as do the various labels etc.. A drop of Sol-Electret in the oil is good, as is Morphic Liquid on the windows. I creamed all of the fuses, the battery, and anything else not too grubby. And there is still more, until one is enveloped even more in Ms Goldfrapps soundscapes.
17th January 2006. From: Richard Graham
Subject: A new idea...
We've done global clipping with the updated clip, and it was good. I am curious about the global effect of other interventions. To my mind Memory Foil is the best thing yet produced, even though I would prefer it came in a different format. So....
If any of you still have one 3mm strip of Memory Foil left, we could all try to apply ONE STRIP at the same time Saturday. This could be 18:00 hrs GMT again, but there needs to be a number of us able to do it.
This may give us a better idea of what would happen if the P.W.B. products spread.
So, who's in?
17th January 2006 From: Mats Lindberg
Subject: SV: A new idea.
I'm in. That is, if I can remember it on Saturday. I still haven't touched my sample of the Memory Foil, so hopefully I'm in for a pleasant experience.
17th January 2006 From: Chris Porada
Subject: another product that sounds strangely familiar...
Today while surfing the net, I came across another product that should sound awfully familiar to people using P.W.B. treatments, yet it seems this time, the explanation for the benefits have to do with alterations to the "dielectrics surrounding the ICs in the components". The product is MusiCoat from TRT, and is basically a fluid that is smeared on the various electronic components, i.e.., ICs, capacitors, etc.., within solid state equipment, and "cures the artificial sound of solid state and digital equipment (e.g., midrange glare, aggressive trebles)." Sounds an awful lot like some things we're familiar with, doesn't it? According to the company, any component can now be made to sound better than equipment costing thousands of dollars, and reviewers have supposedly stated that TRT has found the "holy grail of audio". Anyway, the link to the detailed info is as follows: http://www.trt-wonder.com/page10.html Interestingly, the audio industry and people on Audio Asylum don't seem to have as much trouble accepting this product due to its effects on the dielectric.
17th January 2006 From Richard Graham
Subject: Re: A new idea...
Glad to have you on board Mats. I'll try and send a prompt round on the day.
My main question is about how you can hold back from trying the Memory Foil. That is will power.
Look forward to Saturday.
18th January 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: New P.W.B. User
Hello Everyone, I have just been thoroughly enjoying my music for a few days with the Free sample, and now impatiently waiting for the arrival of my first order- Beginners pack & Red X Pen. Being the impatient sort, I bought a Staedler Red lumocolour (350-2) from a local stationary store (Adelaide, South Australia). My thinking is that if enough Red X Pen marks have been used around the globe it may impart some small influence over an identical standard Pen .I have only used it to cross out a 100 or so barcodes (plenty more to go) but definitely seemed to enhance the 20 or so sample foils placed on equip, fridge, microwave etc.... Of course , it could also be, the pinned back curtains, photos of myself and family in freezer, some screw straightening, Hi-Fi mag in freezer (with a review of my speakers), and even a 100 year old pair of My Uncles , first Leather Booties! Like I said I'm an impatient sort! What a ******g amazing series of discoveries!!!
18th January 2006 From: Mats Lindberg
Subject: A new idea.
Yes, Richard; I am a veritable mountain of will power :)
Actually, I have been trying out a few other things with my system, like repositioning the speakers, changing the tightness of the locknuts on the supports and removing the baseboard on the turntable. I wanted to keep the Memory Foil out of the equation. I have made the mistake before of changing more than one thing at a time before listening.
By the way, is it really vibration and resonances we are manipulating when doing some of the things described above, or is it something P.W.B.-ish? I have a feeling that the opinions might vary on this forum.
If you send anything on Saturday, I will not be able to read and respond to it. My computer is at work. I don't have any Internet access at home.
18th January 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Re: A New Idea.
As you will see from many of my replies on this P.W.B. Forum regarding other 'tweaks' which people have described, I do not challenge their observations - what I challenge are some of the explanations they give - based on the past 25 years of experiments which Peter has carried out.
I think what happens much of the time is that many people, working in audio, hear something unexpectedly change the sound and have to then search for an explanation. That they go down a conventional theory 'check list' i.e..
Is it anything to do with capacitance ?
Is it anything to do with resistance ?
Is it anything to do with inductance ?
Is it anything to do with the dielectric effect ?
Is it anything to do with microphony ?
Is it anything to do with vibrations ?
Is it anything to do with static ?
Is it anything to do with RF interference ? - and so on.
Whilst I am fully aware that there are such things as vibrations, static, RF interference problems, I think that many people too readily settle for the nearest explanation they can get from within conventional electronic and acoustic theory and do not question - as Mat is doing - whether it is something else - something which comes within the P.W.B. Concept (that it is the human being who is being affected, who is doing the changing - not the audio signal nor the acoustic air pressure waves).
18th January 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: New P.W.B. User
Welcome, and I am relieved to find someone who has the same level of will power as myself.
You are going to have a ball!
PS If you know your mind, why wait; it's the music not the science
19th January 2006 From: Kevin Kehoe
Subject: A new idea...
I will be available on Saturday with a 3mm strip of Memory foil.
I am very possessive of this New Foil so I will give careful thought as to where I will attach it. Thanks Richard and Thanks Brian - I now own some Goldfrapp and John Martyn. What can I say but what a voice and what a voice! Good performance by Goldfrapp on the Jools Holland Hootnanny on New Years Eve.
Regards to All,
20th January 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: A new idea...
I know what you mean about Memory Foil, and have had panic episodes when a strip went down the back of a sofa. I have two thoughts about it:-
1. It should be in a Safe to protect
2. I should try and sell it on eBay. If someone can make $1,000,000.00 for selling pixels, I'm sure I could make a profit.
And as for Alison, although 'Supernature' is great, I still have a very soft spot for 'Black Cherry'. 'Crystalline Green' and 'Tiptoe' are wonderful songs with staggering productions, offset by other fun and moving tracks. 'Felt Mountain' is good too in a Portishead kind of way.
Until 6.00pm GMT tomorrow. And no fear of arrest this time!
21st January 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Tonight's the night.
Although there seems to be some activity at P.W.B. central, and my sound at home has improved significantly over the past day, we can assess again the 'butterfly' effect of P.W.B. Devices.
For those that want to take part, listen to a piece just before 18.00 hrs GMT.
For those with the Memory Foil, apply one strip (3mm wide) at 18.00 hrs. This will take a few minutes, given the creams. Do not Clip that object until much later.
At 18.05 hrs GMT, listen to the same piece(s) again.
Post your thoughts.
I have no idea what will come of this - is Memory Foil just confined to the room it is in? So let's see. If it makes a difference, there are a lot of implications.
21st January 2006 From: Kevin Kehoe
Subject: Tonight's the night
After much mental debate, I eventually decided to attach the strip of Memory Foil to the security alarm control box in the hall. And, at about 18.10, I re listened to the disc I was playing just before 1800. I did indeed gain a sound lift although I was part expecting it this time as I find the Memory Foil to be one of the best yet Belt products. The disc played incidentally was Bob Dylan's "Nashville Skyline" - The standard CD issue - not the recently remastered version. The track played was the duet with Johnny Cash "Girl From The North Country". Over the past year or two I have heard this disc emerge from a quite dull sound to a far cleaner and detailed sound with each Belt treatment either to the disc itself or the environment. Following this evenings experiment, there is a little more studio echo apparent around the vocals yet it sees that Dylan has moved a pace or two forward so that the voice is more intimate. When Dylan and Cash sing together on the second half of the performance, it is easier to distinguish the two apart - in other words, more enjoyable to listen to. I cannot believe I managed that analysis without using my favourite descriptive term "Ambiance". But, I have to say it, there seemed to be more of that too!
Regards to all and look forward to hearing the experiences of others.
21st January 2006 From: Gary Lee
Subject: Some slight redemption
Having been down with the flu for the past week, my computer was turned on just in time today to read Richard's notice about using the Memory Foil.
Now the truth can be told: though I suggested clipping on Christmas Eve, it is with great chagrin I admit that the appointed hour came and went without my memory being jogged. I forgot all about it. So Richard's suggestion was a much-welcomed chance to redeem myself.
I, too, had not yet used the Memory Foil and it was an excellent reason to find out what all had been raving about.
My report - The Foil was put in place and then the same music listened to again. There was not a dramatic difference, but it seemed like there was a greater bit of overall clarity to the sound. It is daytime here on the West Coast of North America and the sound never seems quite as good during the daylight. That may be a bit of a factor. Also, the little Sonic Impact T-amp was hooked up, instead of my Aleph 30. The sound was still very good, just no astonishing improvement. A caveat should be issued that my ears are still a bit stuffy from the flu and are not it top form. That could have significantly influenced my perception of sound.
I await the experience of others.
Meantime . . . Richard, what P.W.B. treatments have you used on your T- amp? I have a second unit and want to proceed more slowly in adding treatments this time.
It's always fun to do these global activities. There are some definite benefits to having an Internet.
21st January 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: burning in of cables and components
Hello again, Richard and all other P.W.B. users. As stated previously, I'm impatient with a capital " IM ", and being still a day or two from receiving my beginners kit, I decided to whip up a pair of speaker cables to get my mind off the letterbox. I used Greg Weaver's basic single strand interconnect idea, just adapted for biwiring. What now connects each speaker to my amp. is 4 single strands of 30 gauge (.25mm) magnet winding copper wire-sandwiched between two strips of 2" clear packing tape (red varnish on ends of wire carefully sanded off with fine emery paper. These human hair thin speaker wires equal, if not outshine, the $350 MONSTER ZR1 cables they replace, all for the total cost of Aussie $1.00 !!! Seems to me, based on my reading of P.W.B. theory that its as much
about removing those chunky ,unfriendly monster cables, as any benefits from the new home made cables. Now to my point-I humbly suggest that the "Burning in period" of cables and components, is more accurately a getting to know you phase-when you bring home that new cable ,it's positively bristling with sonically nasty patterns, and over that 50 to 150 hours perhaps the threat lessens somewhat, enabling us to hear a slightly smoother sound.
21st January 2006 From: Gary Lee
Subject: Comment to impatient Michael
It is good to see a newcomer so enthusiastic about P.W.B. treatments. Rest assured, the beginner's kit will be worth the wait. I, too, am impatient and, thus, understand your impatience. Bill Hunt, who comments here sometimes, said the Black Gate caps on his DAC (I think) took 2000 hours to burn in. I nearly fainted. He did say it was worth the time.
Several years ago I made Greg Weaver's "packing tape" ic's and they are being used as a spare pair to hook up the SI T-amp. Along the same lines, an audio friend suggested using 26 gauge magnet wire (did you use Radio Shack as I did?) for speaker wire just as an experiment, which I did. It was astonishing how good the sound was and let me to purchase the small gauge 47 Labs speaker cable/ic kit. But you are more brave than I with your 30 gauge wire. I had not thought to put the Radio Shack magnet wire cables in packing tape. It makes them much more manageable and may give that some thought. Whenever I need a spare pair of speaker cables the magnet wire is trotted out.
The small gauge wire puts the lie to fat speaker cables, doesn't it? Part of the positive effect may well be due to the fact that there are fewer "skinny" speaker cables and the Morphic resonance is more positive.
It will be interesting to hear the results of your future applications of P.W.B. treatments, which we hope will be soon if not sooner.
23rd January 2006 From: Kevin Kehoe
Subject: Tonight's the night.
For whatever reason, I find myself in the happy situation of experiencing a further sound lift over the weekend and may, or may not, be connected with the weekend experiment. The reason I say this is because yesterday we removed from the house a video recorder, a set top receiver and a CD player along with their hand controls - after removing all the previous P.W.B. treatments of course. In place of that little lot we installed a new CD recorder/player and integrated digital receiver. So we now have one machine along with the TV instead of three and two hand controls instead of four. As soon as we established everything worked, I applied as much P.W.B. treatments to the new items as possible. The sound lift on the main system in the adjacent room is simply remarkable and I truly know what other P.W.B. users mean when they describe the TV picture using terms like "Rich vibrant Colour" and "Deep Darks". As I sit in front of the PC, there are two little speakers on a shelf either side of the screen. They have had a fair bit of Belt treatments and before I started to write this piece, I played a few tracks from the media player- Pink Floyd "Sheep" was one. It opens with the distant sound of sheep bleating along with birdsong before the music starts to make an entrance. What a performance from those little speakers! They are producing enough information to recreate the ambience of what sounds like a Welsh valley! I post this in case it has some relevance to the Saturday experiment.
Again, Regards to all,
24th January 2006 From: Tom Marsden
Subject: Burning in of cables and components
Michael, I read with special interest of your experience with thin cables. I have been an enthusiast of thin cables for a long time. For my interconnects I use single strand 0.15 mm copper wire ( I don't know of anything thinner) with a thin Teflon tube for insulation. Being so thin it requires great care in making up a lead but I find Bullet plugs ( Aussie product) the best since I can trap the insulation by inserting a wooden plug in to the device and this gives some ruggedness since the insulation is taking any stresses. Bullet plugs, in any case, are far superior to phono plugs though where possible I do convert to Din connectors. I find the increased resolution from using thin cables to be deeply satisfying. For the speaker cables I am using 7 strand 0.15 wire, which look incongruous connected up to massive TDL transmission line speakers. Thin cables, to my ears, improve bass frequencies enormously and give a lie to the often quoted " thick cables are essential to obtain good bass". Thick or thin all cables improve with P.W.B. treatments ( Ring Ties, Cream, Freezing etc.) and don't forget the old favourite Reef Knot.
24th January 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: Tonight's the night.
Can I ask what you did with the removed objects ? Are they still within the boundaries of your home( e.g. in the garage)? If so, would it have been better to leave the treatments on them and apply new ones to the new equipment? Maybe you didn't have any spare foils.
Also, am I right in assuming that Belt treatments are transferable ( I'm thinking principally of foils here)? If you take a foil, say, off one piece of gear and put it on another do both pieces benefit? I say this as my step-son bought me a DVD player for Xmas and I want to put it in the main system. The foils on the old one could be transferred , if what I am thinking is the case.
Sorry to flood you with questions but I am asking from a state of ignorance.
I have spent a few hours treating my computer which is in one of the upstairs bedrooms. I do notice that the monitor is a hell of a lot clearer and the sound has improved too. Also , the tower now sounds a lot less like a Jumbo jet revving for take-off!!
Now, if I can only find discrete spots on my wife's sewing machine so that I can foil it!
25th January 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: Tonight's the night.
I have held back from reporting my own findings, as I did not want to contaminate things, but this is what I found.
At 17.55, I listened to the opening movement of Bach's Brandenburg Concerto No. 2, from the old, but unsurpassed, Trevor Pinnock recording form the 1980s. I have to say that I enjoyed this very much, just about keeping hold of the different instruments, and the overall musical development. It was pretty magical. I applied the strip of Memory Foil to the companion discs case (Concertos 4-6) at 18.00, and listened again at 18.05. What I noticed then was how much more real the instruments became, and although I felt the sound lost some high end brilliance, I could hear the space around the instruments. Brass seemed to have less glare. It wasn't all positive though, as I thought the sound was not quite as tuneful. This was remedied by Clipping the treated case, where all the benefits were enhanced by the greater tunefulness. I suspect this relates to my habit of Clipping everything that has had Memory Foil attached, as if my mind was aware that the process was not quite complete.
What I cannot say is whether this benefit went out globally - what part of my perceived improvements were from the local effect. It would be good to hear from others if they had a chance to take part, who did not have the Memory Foil.
25th January 2006 From: Mats Lindberg
Subject: Re: Tonight's the night.
I have been at home since Friday with my daughters, who had both caught a cold (or something similar) with a high fever. Consequently, there was a lot to read about Saturday's experiment when I returned to work today.
On Friday evening I felt that I had to try one strip of the Memory Foil, just to see what was to be expected on Saturday. I put the foil on the TV. To me it seemed that both the picture on the TV and the sound from the stereo improved.
On Saturday I chose to listen to "Hey Lord (don't ask me questions)" by Graham Parker before applying the foil (on the record player). I hadn't heard the song for a long time, and it sounded better than before. I could hear some very rhythmic percussion sounds in the background that I could not remember hearing previously. When I listened after creaming and foiling, the percussion sounds turned out to be the strumming of a guitar, easier to hear now, but less rhythmic. The guitar sounded a bit out of pace with the rest of the music, and the song seemed slower, but the sound got richer and more detailed.
By the end of Sunday, I had used up all of my foil, but the influence of the foil was not as great now as after the first two pieces. I have not returned to "Hey Lord" after the latest applications of foil, but any other music I have listened to has not suffered from a lack of rhythm (I think). The positive effects of the foil are there to be heard, though.
26th January 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: Beginners kit arrived and applied
Hello P.W.B.'ers, Just an update, received my beginners kit- (Thank you May!) and have been madly foiling and creaming and signing everything I could think of to foil cream and write on- cables , both audio and not, photos in freezer, creamed, foiled (rainbow, safe hole, blue z, comfort, gold with sig. O.K.), on one of two bass, mid drivers in each speaker box. Inside of DVD player and amp, walls, skirting boards, Mirrors, chairs, vacuum cleaner, fridge etc.... No improvement whatsoever! Sounds worse than before! Of Course, I jest, kid, am pulling your leg! Sound now entering my lugholes is a thing of beauty, no harshness at higher volume (Sorry neighbours!!) and the bass, oh the bass!- So Full and Rounded and Tight, I thinking of asking it out on a date! Besides the increased presence, it's as if I can hear "behind the music" now -no longer two dimensional, coming from the front of speakers- but rounded, as if you can see the notes disappearing into the blackness behind. Does that make sense? Silly Question, asking P.W.B.'ers if something makes sense! Thank you heartily, May, Peter and Family for your incredible work, I will be scanning the price list tonight for my next order, probably Morphic Liquid, more Silver Foil, 12mm Spiratube, and dreaming about the Quantum Clip. Thanks also to all out there for info and tips .
26th January 2006 From: Kevin Kehoe
Subject: Re: Tonight's the night
How I wish I had unlimited funds to throw at P.W.B.! If I was fortunate enough to have some rich relative leave me a million or two, there is no doubt about where a wedge of it would end up. I have been recycling Belt products for years now, mainly Magnadiscs, Spiratube and Ring Ties the Ties can be a pig to remove and is best attempted with a pin to free the ratchet and allow the tail to slip through. Some of those items have come with us from the previous house and I often wonder what the new owners think when they see things like "X 26X" and "X"= Present Time written on everything from the water tank to the electric meter. I hope they got some sound benefit from those and the Foils that I did not remove or forgot about. At present, all the equipment removed at the weekend is still in a shed at the rear of the house still on our property. I intend removing them as soon as possible and then listening for any further sound lift. As I said in the earlier posting the sound lift experienced was considerable an I have been playing some vinyl or CD each evening just to make sure it has not gone away! I know that treating an object can result in that object actually adding to the overall sound within the territory, so I am not sure that the sound lift is actually caused the removal of those items. I know, I know, that I could take the time to make a few experiments like bringing the items back indoors and doing some listening tests before bringing them back to the shed, but to do it properly I really should re apply all the treatments that were there before and then listen. But to be honest, I'm so happy with the sound all I want to do is listen to music. One possible answer could be that at Christmas I purchased a couple of P.W.B. Garment Pins one for me and one for Wendy (she takes great delight in telling her Mother and Sister what a great chap I am giving her a safety pin for Christmas!). Since getting into the habit of wearing it constantly, I seem to be better at discerning changes brought about by P.W.B. activity. Whatever! Back to Foils. When I remove foils from any object it is always because that object is going straight out of the house preferably off the territory, with no exception. Again, I have not tested this much but from what I have read and learned from other Beltists, Foils or any P.W.B. treatment change our perception of the object it is attached to creating a more beneficial environment for listening to music. Remove the foil and it reverts to it's old unfriendly self. So, when a new piece of kit enters the home I either use some of the foils and other treatments off the outgoing kit or, if it is a new addition, it gets the best Belting I can afford. As you might gather from the above, I am not the worlds best when it comes to P.W.B. experiments. The merest hint of a sound lift and I'm stuck in front of the speakers listening. I can only thank the likes of Richard, Tom and many others for their inspirational insights on matters P.W.B. and if anything in this reply strikes someone with the need to make a correction, please feel free to make it.
27th January 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: Re: Tonight's the night
Thanks for your reply. Sitting in front of the speakers , listening, is what it's all about.
As I have been off for the last two days and my dear wife has been at work I did intend to have a Belting session. My one downfall was that I picked up my copy of the Peel biog (Margrave...) and spent many hours ,enthralled, reading that.
What I did get round to was treating the Sony portable( you know, the one that looks like a squashed egg) that I use in the kitchen. I also had a go at the Sennheiser PX200 headphones that I use with it. They are a steal at around £30 but , before treatment, the sound was a bit toppy with not a great amount of bass. I put this down to the Sony as I know that the 'phones are good. Anyway, creaming, spiratubing and foiling both and ,bearing in mind what Richard said recently about taking off the pads and foiling the module, resulted in a far better sound with a clear sparkling top and a lower, more informative bottom end. Ry Cooder's Chavez Ravine track 'Chinito,Chinito' a sort of cross between Mexican/Southern States music and Reggae(!) was a case in point. By the way , Richard, if you are reading this, I uttered a few curses when it came to putting the padding back on the headphones. Fiddley , or what? Well worth the effort, though.
I also used Sol-Electret for the first time today, treating the phone, all sockets that I could lay my hands on in the listening room, the sub and satellite speakers and the garage door runner retaining screws, plus a spot on the runners..
I have a major problem in that , to get to the rear of the hi-fi, I have to take out the unit that the wife built for us so it will have to wait until Sunday. Let's just say that we have a division of labour in our house , she does things like that and I do the ironing! Hey, I'm a new man! I cried when Bambi's mother got shot.
Anyway, what little time I had left was spent listening to see what changes there were. There was greater clarity but the session was all too short to spot meaningful changes. Basically , the combination of wife returning home and tea-time equals 'Neighbours' Drat!!
The night before I had used up my remaining foils in treating the PC and the electronics in that room. The rest of the room needs to be done but I'll have to wait for some more foils. Like Richard , I listen to BBC 6 Music and I found that the TV sound in that room was a lot better after treatment. I am listening to Craig Charles Funk Show as I type and the bass is a whole lot better.
What you said about the garment pin was interesting. Later on ,in February ,I'm off to see Glen Tillbrook doing a solo set at a local pub venue. Have you or any of the others, tried wearing one at a small venue (I'm afraid that, at the moment ,the pin is not on the cards, the Red Pen has priority ) ? I last saw Glen a few years ago and , about half-way through the set, he asked if there were any requests. Being a bit worse for wear I shouted out 'Smoke on the water'. To his credit he did the first few opening bars and said ' Right , that's enough of that...' and continued on his merry way. I wonder if he'll remember this time!!
On a general note and for all the other readers, the Sol-Electret leaflet mentions kneading SE into Blu-tack and mentions imparting a negative charge. My small, but perfectly formed ,brain seems to remember room-ionisers were on the go some years ago and were said to impart well-being through negative ions. A quick check on the Internet shows that they are still made, although initially there were concerns about Ozone production. It may be a can of worms and I have not seen the subject mentioned in postings, but has anyone had experience in that area? I am prepared to be shot down in flames.
28th January 2006 From: Kevin Kehoe
Subject: Re: Tonight's the night.
Spooky or what! I received The Peel biog as a Christmas prezzy from Wendy and found it unputdownable to such an extent that by the end of Boxing Day, I had finished it. Although his wife Sheila made a wonderful job of carrying on with the book after John's sad passing, I would have loved to read more of his own words. He was a very lovely Man. Further to reapplying Foils: May Belt can supply a Treated Clear Film which can be cut to suit and applied over the attached and treated Foil to prevent it coming off. I use it on such things as cell phones and other portable devices your Sony portable would be a possible candidate. Spooky or what II ! I recently purchased Ry Cooder's Chavis Ravine disc and at least six of the tracks push it towards making it one of his best yet. I am now away to check out a few things that you mentioned in the remainder of your posting. Hope you don't mind me making a comment here regarding Michael's recent posting following the receipt of his beginner's kit. His description of the sound is exactly how I should have described my recent uplift.
29th January 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Re: Room ionisers
One word of caution when considering such as room ionisers. Whatever they may be doing to the room atmosphere, they would still be an object being introduced into the environment and would have to be 'treated'. All I ask is don't be lulled into a false sense of security in that they may be introducing beneficial negative ions, the actual ioniser, merely being present in the room, could cause a deterioration in the sound. Also on the same theme. Be aware if you are still listening to vinyl records and you occasionally use what was called the Zerostat gun and you find that your sound has suddenly deteriorated. At least Cream the body of the Zerostat gun with our Cream-Electret but, preferably, try not to use the Zerostat gun at all. You would be amazed at what can affect your perception of the sound.
29th January 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: Re: Room ionisers
Thanks for your reply to what was really a hypothetical question. I have no intention of buying an ioniser.
As for vinyl, well that's no longer a problem. It all started when I moved my 800+ albums upstairs to create more room in the lounge . That was a bad move as the vinyl tended to be played less and less. Many of the records have been replaced with their CD counterparts. In some cases the recordings have been re-mastered, usually to good effect
The upshot of this was that I sold my Linn and put the money towards creating a 5.1 system. ( I can hear the sobbing in the background ). The main stereo system has been retained, with the surround amp only driving the three new speakers. The sub is active. A bit of a mish-mash, I know , but it works well. I wasn't going to give up stereo listening as I had it. I certainly don't want to do so now!
The albums are still all upstairs and can be treated. When I can get round to it I am going to list them all , with a view to selling them. (Very sad, I know) . I have come across a site called WWW.Netsoundsmusic.com which facilitates buying and selling vinyl and I may use them. Record Collector is far too expensive to advertise in. Also, I did think that maybe some of the group may like to be made aware of what records are there with a view to purchase. I don't know how you feel about that I can always contact people directly , if they are interested. Anyway, I'm not anywhere near producing a list yet.
Thanks for the Newsletter. Richard has raised some interesting points to which I will reply under separate cover.
30th January 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: Room ionisers
I had many similar anxieties about giving up the analogue, but after the turntable power supply failed, and I took the last LPs to a charity shop (little market in those days) I have not looked back. I also went 5.1, or rather 4.0, as I have little faith in centre speaker matching, and am not a bass freak. But this is what is great about Peter's devices - whatever the inherent benefit of analogue replay, you can make the digital very good. Very good indeed. If you have moved into multi-channel music, there are really too few discs to recommend, but what there are, are marvellous.
As I wrote in the Newsletter, there is still a role for analogue with amps and speakers. Meridian's DSP Speaker approach is very elegant, but all that money to only find out that the speakers need more chips, HDMI 18.4 etc. in a few years.
Are you freezing yet, Brian?
And don't forget those quirky Charge Barriers!
30th January 2006 From: Heiko Wingender
Subject: Tonight's the night
For those with the Memory Foil, apply one strip (3mm wide)
That means the strip should be at least 3mm wide in order obtain the best effect?
The Instructions only says "small" but not how small. ;-)
I am also curious why the black patterns on the sample of Memory Foil are slightly different than on the acquired strip of foil.
30th January 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: Re: Tonight's the night.
I totally agree with your summation of the Peel book. I finished it a few hours ago.
It would be humungously spooky if you also got the Nick Drake biog as well this Xmas. Can I recommend Barry Miles book 'In the Sixties' ? The title says it all. Actually, I have read some of his other books and he is a very good writer.
On the subject of Michael ( and also to you, Michael , if you are reading this), how the heck did he manage to do so much in such a short space of time? I'm afraid that , for me , the W word keeps getting in the way
30th January 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: Re: Room ionisers
Chris is away for 3 days this week so, after work, I shall engage the services of Ryan, my step-son, to facilitate moving the hi-fi unit out of the alcove so that I can get round the back of it. I can then cream, memory foil and Sol-Electret all of the units plus remove power cords and inter-connects for freezing. The screws in the speakers will be next. I will also do the pictures bit.
This afternoon I spent aligning as many screws as I could find. (I expect that you are only too aware of how many screws there are in the average household!! )After the units have been done with the Sol-Electret I will coat some of the screws. I just didn't want to run out mid-job. The drop in the car engine will also be done later.
Going 5.1 was not too much of a trauma. Like most people our lounge has to be both music room and ' cinema'. If ever I win the lottery the first thing that I'll make sure of is that we have a larger house so that we can have separate rooms for TV and audio.
I have seen what a good projector and screen set-up can do and it is extremely good. The level of detail in Finding Nemo was superb, you could see all of the bits of plankton in the water in sharp detail. A good testimony to the animators art.
I have not been too inclined to enter the DVD music area, except for buying The Pixies disc. It did go to show what a good guitarist Joey Santiago is.
MTV and the like drive me daft and I have no real desire to buy some of the discs as I fear that a lot of them will turn out to be rehashed promos. I know that there are some goodies out there so careful consideration is the order of the day.
I will finish on a few questions, if I may. Charge barriers ...Errr?
Also , you mention PCs and better burning. I have creamed and SR foiled the PC and peripherals, plus Spiratube and Sol-Electret. May told me that I should freeze the blank disc before and after burning. Any other things to do?
I'll tackle Meridian and comment on you article in the Newsletter a bit later. Got to go, Life on Mars is about to start.
31st January 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Re: Memory Foil
The pattern design, printed on the Memory Foil is repeated over and over again down the length of the Foil and therefore the printing on each small sample of Memory Foil will look slightly different, because of where it was cut from the full length. However, every sample piece and every small strip cut from the full length is equally effective. If you can actually cut a suitable and workable 2 mm strip, then that would be OK.
Jan 31, 2006 From: Richard Graham
Although you are right May, for years I used 2mm strips, but there are pitfalls. Firstly some become 1.5 mm, some 2.5 mm - the former are just too fiddley. Secondly, I found them more likely to be displaced, or fall off. It thus became a false economy.
31st January 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: Room ionisers
Quite a lot to get through...
1. Charge Barriers are the wrong name now for pieces of cardboard that sit on your thirteen amp (or other) electrical plug, over the pins. They are purple, and have a pattern on them like the Foils. They're relatively cheap, and I love 'em.
2. As for the PC - it's the usual one of putting as many different Foils and creams on the Tower, plus any of the labels, a Violet Magnadisc, Red pen, treating the wires, Clipping, putting it in the Freezer etc.. A strip of Foil on the CD-R, Electret and Green Creams, Black, Purple and Red inks, Clip, in the freezer etc..
And then one realises a treated freezer.... Or a treated camera etc..
And so it goes on.
By the way the reference was not to Music DVDs as in the MTV sense, but high resolution audio from DVD Audio and SACD. Tom Marsden has spoken well of SACD, but I haven't ventured into that given the likelihood of PC-based PCM looking more possible.
31st January 2006 From: Heiko Wingender
Subject: Re: Memory Foil
2mm seems to be a practicable width which I am used to cut of precisely with a sharp cutter and a set square. I have also noticed what Richard argued. One has to carefully wipe off any excess of blue cream otherwise the strip won't be attached properly and is likely to fall off.
Proving the effect of the clip I found that re-clipping the same object after some days for example the loudspeakers made a nice and noticeable further improvement of sound perception. I wonder whether an object should be clipped several times, perhaps at different spots or whether the clipping looses strength after some time.
I have been attaching the clip for around 10 seconds, perhaps this is too short?
31st January 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: Memory Foil
I Clip from time to time, and have thought of the process in a particular way. Whenever new P.W.B. treatments are introduced into the environment it increases the 'background of positive influence', which enhances the next Clipping. That makes sense to me, of a benign cycle, where one activity improves the quality of the next. If you do it too frequently the effect can be rather too small. This past weekend I re-sprayed with Morphic Liquid my electricity meter and fuse box, and re-Clipped everything. It was 6 weeks since I'd touched it, and the effect was worthwhile. Although Mrs Belt is fond of Lister, it seems to me that it is less like 'asceptic technique', where bacterial influence is reduced, but a more positive, perhaps catalytic influence. The question remains as to whether it is always better to Clip something new - no matter where it is on the London Eye... - or periodically Clip treated items.
1st February 2006 From: Graham Mountford
Subject: Cream Electret.
Congratulations Arkie!! I tried creaming the whole TV screen and the drive units of my speakers (8 in all) and I agree with you about the effect. It is stunning!!. I would go so far as to say that it is the single most impressive uplift in performance that I have yet experienced and that in the light of the effect of recent foils is saying a hell of a lot.
I wish Peter could produce an emulsion paint with Cream Electret as a main ingredient. At least it would create a faint interest in decorating the house!!
1st February 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: Cream Electret
This is very interesting. I always held a 'Butterfly Effect'/homeopathy position on this - a little bit of something changed things a lot. But if 'coverage' is an important factor, should we be spreading less
thinly, and more widely? I have tended to apply Electret Cream mainly to foils or ring ties. But if the whole length of a wire, or pipe....
2nd February 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Re: Cream-Electret
Our Cream-Electret was one of the first products we introduced (introduced nearly 20 years ago !!). It was (and is) one of the most versatile of products - a small amount can be applied to anything, anywhere. Because the audio industry in general could not (or would not) understand how it could possibly have any effect on the sound, the majority of them did not even bother to try it. It should have gained an immediate reputation and that reputation should have swept through the audio industry like a whirlwind. But the journalists who have been prepared to write about it have been met with derision and ridicule. As many of you who have viewed my talk will be aware, I describe how one can improve the sound of a speaker drive unit by applying Cream-Electret to the cone material - exactly as Graham Mountford has just described. When you imagine just what the hundreds of speaker systems, over the years, could have sounded like if this had been done by manufacturers and retailers - one shakes one's head in dismay at the lost opportunities. I am so pleased to hear that you have had such success Graham.
2nd February 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: Cream-Electret
Theoretically May, is more better? Should the whole cone be covered, and excess wiped off with a Super Wipe tissue?
2nd February 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: Creaming Reading Glasses
Hello All, Quite by accident, using the same microfibre sunglass cloth that I use to wipe excess cream off playing side of CD's, I gave my reading glasses a quick polish yesterday- Yipes!! Instantly transformed my $2 glasses into.. into... much better, clearer, sparkly, $2 glasses! Upon closer examination of the cloth, I found a SR foil stuck fast to one corner of the cloth - another multiple use of P.W.B. products?
Just a question, am awaiting my 2nd order, re: Electret oil, how is it applied to wall sockets, any other tips for it's use? Must away, to lie down, I am feeling bloated after a huge helping of reggae BAASSSS lions..........
2nd February 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Re: Cream-Electret
I think Michael may just have provided part of my answer to your question Richard. The first experience most people have with our Cream-Electret is a tiny amount in a small sample jar. So, from the P.W.B. point if view, we find it is important for people to apply a small amount in as many places as possible - to enable them to become aware of just how many things in the environment are a problem with respect to sound. Michael, who has just reported wiping his glasses with the tiniest amount possible will, by doing so, have experienced his sound improving yet again. If we suggest that the greater the area you treat with the Cream, the better the beneficial effect, then the majority of the Cream could be used up covering such as the entire four sides of loudspeaker cabinets, the whole wooden plinth of a turntable, the whole perspex lid of the turntable, the full lengths of all audio cables - leaving none to experiment by 'creaming' non audio cables, non audio objects in the environment !! Obviously, from our (commercial) point of view, the more Cream-Electret people need to purchase, the happier we will be. On the other hand however, we feel that people will obtain a greater understanding of our concepts if they are able to experience the effect of 'treating' hundreds of different objects (objects in no way associated with audio) and gain improvements in their sound each time.
2nd February 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
To 'treat' wall sockets with Sol-Electret you remove the screws attaching the wall socket to the wall and apply Sol-Electret oil to the screw threads. Similarly the screw threads of all screws securing shelves to the wall !!
2nd February 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: Sol-Electret
I have had the opportunity to view your DVD talk and very interesting it was too. (I admire your stamina .Three hours and you were still going!) Do you want me to send it back, so that someone else can view it?
It's nice to be able to put a face to a name. I have seen images of Peter at various times but none of you. What amazed me was that you were more or less as I imagined you would be. That's a compliment, by the way.
I have powered down my system and am awaiting the arrival of the Intermediate pack . Getting round the back of my gear has enabled me to freeze and treat interconnects and power cords while I am waiting .I also spent a few hours treating and straightening screws throughout the building .Before powering up again I will attach all of the new foils, including the Memory Foil.
On the matter of creaming, I have coated all my speakers all over as well as the whole TV screen and cables. The same applies to the PC monitor. That, in particular I use a duster for the wiping away of excess and the same duster is used to dust the room. I look upon this as a way of 'topping up ' the various treatments that I have already done. I try not to use furniture polish. The treatments are all unobtrusive and are on areas that would not get polished anyway.
2nd February 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: Cream-Electret
For commercial reasons, you might suggest we spread the cream on our morning toast, but my point was that if money were no object, theoretically, is more 'better'. I am prepared to try this, but cannot for a week or so.
Also, the Electret Cream is one of your most cost-effective products, and if someone went a bit mad, they could easily get more. Green Cream is the one where one feels one has 'fat fingers', and every trace is precious.
Should I go for the 'super smear'?
3rd February 2006 From: Arkie Martherus
Subject: Re: Cream Electret >O.K!
I agree with you, Graham M., this was about the best treatment I've ever done. @RG: Peter said once, that we the layer of Cream Electret has to be only one molecule thick... So, thanks to that knowledge, I could treat thousands of things, with the tiny amount of free sample May once sent. I'm aware that smearing it with my finger and then touching everything in the house with those 'dirty' fingers (I never wipe off with a paper tissue), has to cause beneficial effects too. After this success story, I'll have to order more of the stuff, because, indeed it is soooo cost effective:)
3rd February 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Super Smear
Yes I would recommend a day devoted to 'super smearing'.
Followed by, of course, Quantum Clipping the area which has been 'creamed'.
3rd February 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: Cream Electret >O.K!
You're not wrong mate!
Yet still I am plagued as to whether the 'one molecule layer' should be all over, or it really is the case that one molecule is enough. I thought I might try to get some of those newspaper CDs at the weekend, and compare a molecule with a wider spread.
3rd February 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: Super Smear
Thanks May, and I have my fingers at the ready. I am quite excited by this - a 'super smear' gives the opportunity for quite an advance if the other views are correct.
What is disappointing though is that I had managed to isolate one molecule of Electret Cream using a very sharp pencil, and help from an adult. Unfortunately, the molecule then fell off of the pencil tip, and disappeared into the carpet. I feel reassured that we can now use our fingers!
3rd February 3, 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: Re: Super Smear
This molecule thick business brings to mind a comedy sketch featuring Gregor Fisher and Tony Roper whereby they were dressed up in white lab coats and , with thick Aberdonian accents, were attempting to 'splut the aaatom'. To do this Roper had pinched two of his fingers together , presumably holding the atom, and Fisher would do the splitting with a rip-saw!! Better seen than described, methinks.
Anyway, the Intermediate Pack arrived today and , on my return from yet another bash I will be setting to and putting the (un)frozen leads back and doing the foils. I am wary of changing too many things at once but am also straining at the leash.
3rd February 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: Creaming Reading Glasses
Aha , a reggae fan! I believe that Kevin also mentioned this genre earlier. Being brought up on ska and bluebeat earlier in the Sixties I took a diversion into Prog. later on . What re-ignited my interest was being at a party and someone playing Big Youth's 'Wolf in sheeps clothing' and then hearing Yabby U doing ' Deliver me from my enemies'. I couldn't get enough after that.
Since then I have been busy trying to persuade anyone that would listen that it was not all 'changa, changa' and that (great though he is) it's not all Bob Marley.
With reference to the P.W.B. treatments , it does highlight the fact that there are some not so good productions out there. I realise that they had rudimentary equipment and a lot of good stuff was done ( Lee Perry, King Tubby et al). I suppose that we have to accept stuff , warts and all. Great music ( of any genre) still shines through.
Roll on the CD release of Misty in Roots 'Live at the Counter-Eurovision', Another disc first heard on Peel.
4th February 2006 From: Kevin Kehoe
Subject: Re: Creaming Reading Glasses
-I had intended opening this posting with the phrase "This latest frenzied P.W.B. activity is contagious". But, having been felled in the last few days with Shingles, I will take a different tack: Inspired by recent postings especially May Belt's, I began a marathon Sol-Electret spree. As I had already treated most electrical contacts including all interconnects on every piece of audio and TV within our house, this set of treatments was to be confined to fixing screws. I managed to do all the screws that hold up the shelving holding our CD collection followed by every screw fixing the power socket outlets and light switches around the house. I had made a good start on the furniture fixings such as screws in the cabinet hinges, door hinges and those holding desks together when the virus struck. As I have now been told to stay away from work for a week or so, I will continue with the Sol-Electret treatments at a more leisurely pace when I'm over the worst of it. It has not, however, affected my ability to perceive sound change or see an improvement in the TV picture. I still get a huge buzz from seeing/hearing changes following P.W.B. treatments to objects not associated with the sound system or TV. It's like when as a kid, you got a new toy only more so! Before I leave the subject, I think it was Brian or Richard who said he never knew there were so many screws to be found in the average living room. Well, wherever I saw that phrase, it is so very true. Brian, I own the Mist In Roots vinyl album" Earth". I also had the live album but along with many a good record, it got borrowed out never to return. I also heard them on the Peel Show. I agree with what you say regarding early Reggae production. If I avoided all the records that were iffy in this respect I would have cut myself off from hundreds of wonderful performances. When I post on the results of P.W.B. treatments, it is sometimes those records that show the most remarkable change. It also goes for early recordings made on 78's transferred to CD. I know that a vast amount of the frequency range is missing and can never be replaced, but what is even more remarkable is just how effective the remaining information can be in portraying the spirit of the original performance although it is definitely not HI-FI. I think only P.W.B. can do this! A Man who could take basic recording equipment and turn out production masterpieces is Lee Perry. I too grew up in the 60's listening to Ska, Bluebeat and later Reggae. I will always remember first hearing Perry's "People Funny Boy". A throw the rattle from the pram tantrum at other producers and musicians he had helped on their way and was now making more money than him. "You Lucky, You Lucky You Got A Piece A Yard Me, Poor Me, Ain't Got None At All! A crying baby then comes in over the organ break just magic!
5th February 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: Re: Creaming Reading Glasses
My Intermediate pack has arrived and that's within two or three days of sending for it! Also , May has sent me two charge barriers FOC. I think that she must have picked up on my query with Richard. What service!!!
My system is still powered down so I'll have to get a move on. Chris has been very tolerant so far, but I don't want to push my luck.
This week I shall be mainly red- penning. I've nearly run out of Sol-Electret so I'll need to order a new one.
Kevin - Sorry to hear of your ailment. Great cartoons , by the way. I am afraid that I never lent out albums, precisely for the reason that you gave. I would do a c**y for people, if requested.
That reference to People Funny Boy reminded me that there is a book about Lee Perry with exactly the same title. I checked on Amazon and it is still available. (My apologies if you've already got it). His 'Roast fish...' CD is worth seeking out. Lots of weird noises in the mix.
A book that I found very interesting about Reggae is 'Bass Culture' by Lloyd Bradley. I picked mine up from Fopp, dirt cheap. I usually raid their Edinburgh shops when we are up there in August each year. Lots of CDs and books at very cheap prices. They have recently opened shops either side of me , in Brighton and Southampton ,so I can raid a bit more often . It's a shame that they don't do mail-order.
7th February 2006 From: Kevin Kehoe
Subject: Using Sol-Electret
I am currently in the process of a major treatment drive using Sol-Electret. I am a relative newcomer to this product and currently half way through a second syringe full. All the electrical connections, interconnect terminations and fuses (including all I could find within each separate piece of HI-FI kit and the TV) got treated with my first order. This second round of treatments was to be mainly applied to screws anything from those that fix the power outlets and light switches to furniture fixings. And, as May suggested, all shelf support screws. In the process, I found so many of them that I have confined the treatments to the rooms that contain the TV and the main HI-FI. When you receive your order there will be a set of instructions as to the best places to make the first treatments.
A year or so ago, I did a similar marathon set of treatments using Cream Electret which took in the whole house I was using the "little bit on everything" approach to conserve stock. But reading recent postings, I will give the "all over" suggestion a try on a few selected components in the next few days. The current Sol-Electret results are very similar to the Cream Electret treatments in that I did not notice any improvement to the sound until a number of treatments had been carried out. The more screws treated before a listening evaluation, the greater the sound lift perceived. I now have the dilemma of whether to open up the new DVD Recorder for internal treatments or wait for the guarantee to expire. Incidentally, if anyone is thinking of removing the cover from a piece of kit make sure the power connection is removed from the wall socket that way you know it cannot be powered. Hope some of this will be of use.
7th February 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Re: Using Sol-Electret
I am so pleased you have mentioned the proviso 'to be careful' when working with anything with a power connection and to disconnect it from the AC power before attempting any of our treatments. On a daily basis I usually have an electronics engineer on either side of me - our son Graham on one side and Peter on the other side. And, I got a 'ticking off' after posting my suggestion to apply Sol-Electret to the screw threads of the screws attaching an electrical socket to the wall because I had not added the usual rider - "Do not attempt this procedure if you do not feel competent and experienced to do so and Please disconnect from the AC power supply any electronic apparatus". If I am given one guess, I would guess Kevin that you are also an electronics engineer !!!!
I have been suitably reprimanded !!
We were in Edinburgh a few years ago and, as well as York, (which we visit nearly every year) found it to be one of the loveliest Cities in the UK. The Palace of Holyroodhouse was a revelation to stand in the same rooms, under the same roof and next to the same wall panelling that existed when Mary, Queen of Scots paced it's floors over 400 years ago created a huge sense of history. Just as it did when we stood in Westminster Abby by the side of the tomb of Elizabeth I with the Scottish Queen to the other side. Whilst in Edinburgh, I purchased some Shetland Fiddle CD's one of which was "The Silver Bow" by Tom Anderson and Aly Bain the same Aly Bain that introduced the Atlantic Sessions on which John Martyn made several appearances. And, I believe, John Martyn worked at some stage with Lee Perry. I have been thrown bodily from pubs for spouting this kind of trivia! I do indeed have the Lee Perry track you mention but on vinyl along with a box set of Upsetters material. I intend to purchase some of his stuff on CD soon and a likely starting place is the box set "Arkology" a 3 CD set. Another majestic reggae band is Culture - I wish I had the live stuff recorded for the John Peel show. I think the vinyl is now deleted and it has not yet appeared on CD. I have not got the books you mention but I will investigate further
7th February 2006 From: Kevin Kehoe
Subject: Re: Using Sol-Electret
I currently work in Electrical Engineering on the repair of Servo Motors and their associated equipment and I bet you did not get a "Ticking off" like the one me and a workmate got a few months after leaving school and starting work at a local engineering firm as apprentices. We charged up a number of industrial motor start capacitors using a "megger" which, as you know , is a hand cranked high voltage generator, before putting the capacitors back on the stores counter. The storeman was a very large ex-navy quartermaster.
We never pulled that trick again!
8th February 2006 From Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: Re: Using Sol-Electret
At present I am still working my way through the Intermediate pack plus Sol-Electret. My system is still powered down as it has to be pulled out of the bay window area to get round the back. All of the foils, including the Memory foil, have been applied . I can't wait until I can power up again. I still need to apply Red x Pen messages to the equipment, though. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
All of the plugs and connections in the house have been Sol-Electret treated but I am nearly out of this. I think that I still have enough for a drop in the car oil and some on the other garage door runner. I've done lots of screws but haven't done the fixing screws on the sockets. Need to order more , I think.
Fings wot I have noticed so far:
Water from the taps is immediately clear ,rather than having the usual chalky precipitate, and tastes better.
As I type, here upstairs, with 6 Music on , the TV has suddenly taken on a better bottom end and is much more pleasant to listen to.
The PC screen is a lot clearer and I may have to adjust the brightness settings as it appears brighter.
Music in the (treated) car is still great.
Right, I'm off to do some crossing out of bar-codes. Do you realise.......?
9th February 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Update on Electret Cream
I managed to get two freebie discs at the weekend, and one received a 'molecule' of Electret Cream, and the other was covered on the label side. The 'covered' disc was superior to the 'molecule' disc.
I then proceeded to cover a pair of bookshelf speakers with the cream, and discovered many things. Firstly, it is a devil to spread over large areas, and you needed a large supply of 'dotted' tissues to wipe off the excess, and many minutes.
The end result was that the sound was superior to that before, but to my mind not to a level where I thought it justified the work. (There are those who suggest that one hears the Belt effect because of the cost and energy put in - I wish!) It is hard to quantify, but I thought that time spent applying Foils might be more worthwhile.
I was thus left with these thoughts:
1. Better to have a molecule on everything, than covering a few items.
2. For the man who has everything, the 'Super Smear' is better, but I would do it only as a final step, because the cream is not easy to work over large areas, and other applications may be more profitable.
It may be that some items, such as a TV tube respond better.
Anyway, as many know, I like quick applications, and I will only try this again if bored.
9th February 2006 From: Tom Marsden
Subject: Re: Update on Electret Cream
Richard, I can report my experience is similar to yours. I super smeared the glass panel on my 42" Plasma. Cleaning up the greasy mess left on the screen was no easy matter. I used up quite a few superwipes without a lot of success and finished up using Morphic liquid and soft tissues to finally leave the panel polished, which was then clipped Initially, I thought the exercise was a waste of time but after 24 hours I was of the opinion that there was an improvement in picture quality. ( I find the benefits of P.W.B. treatments are not always instantaneous ) The picture is now easier on the eyes and closer to cathode ray quality. I did consider super smearing the bass units in the loudspeakers but have now decided against this.
9th February 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: Enticing musicians further into hearing range by supersmearing
Hello all, after reading above covering TV screen speaker drivers with cream , I gave it a shot. The TV screen was up first (a real bugger to clean off as you said ,Tom!) Result: better picture clarity and cleaner sound. A couple of days later I supersmeared entire tweeter, and one of two bass, mid drivers in my locally made VAF DC7 floorstanders - WOW- the first thought that occurred to me was that the band had taken a few giant steps towards my listening chair, not only can I hear behind the music, but also can now feel the breathe coming from the singers voice much more clearly, as well as feeling the power of the drummer as he/she lays into the Bass Drum Can't wait to smear remaining bass drivers and also bass port.
A couple of questions
1: can the dot on the superwipe be made with RED 'X PEN?
2: What is the best length to cut 12mm tube to attach to waterpipes, I cut pieces approx 30-40 mm long but when placing them on pipes they seem to ride up on themselves and not allow that air gap between the spirals?
Regards to the Yorkshire geniuses and all P.W.B.'ers
Michael (now with Sinead OConnor almost sitting on my lap!!!)
9th February 2006 From: Graham Mountford
Subject: Re: Using Sol-Electret
Can I suggest that you are careful as to the amount of Sol-Electret you apply to screws in the casing of your Hi-Fi equipment, as when you tighten the screws again it can force the fluid inside. Some years ago I treated my pre-amp and shorted one of the channels of the input from my tuner.
To Reiterate - What various 'posters' are saying - take care when treating equipment. However I would like to emphasise that our Sol-Electret does not contain anything which is conductive.
May, P.W.B. Electronics
10th February 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: I have sorted out Spiratube issue
Silly me- upon closer exam.. I found that I had tried to screw the tube on backwards-twisting the ends back t'other way produced a nice neat spiral-being lefthanded is the culprit!!
10th February 2006 From: Geoff Kait
Subject: Re: Update on Electret Cream
re: Cream Electret
This product has always been a favorite of mine, and certainly should be considered one of the most cost-effective products of all time. From my experience, the best way to use the Cream Electret is sparingly, though as May points out more is probably better, it's a matter of effort and expense, mostly effort.
Apply extremely thin layer of the cream on penny sized area of both sides of all CDs. The more CDs that are creamed the better all CDs will sound - even CDs that are not creamed!
All jewel boxes, all books/magazines (especially telephone books), all wood items such as shelving, cabinet doors, items made of aluminum or steel, and of course all bar codes, should receive the cream treatment. A little dab'll do ya, so on floors one need only apply a thin layer to one small corner of the floor, recalling that the cream should not subjected to cleaning. A damp sponge can be helpful in applying small amount of cream to small areas of walls, ceiling, shelving, speaker panels, etc..
Happy Morphic housekeeping!
10th February 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: Update on Electret Cream
I've covered my floor-standers panels all over with the cream, except the back panels. It's a good job that I left those as some of the foils fail to adhere properly on creamed surfaces( or is it just me?) Very, very worth while, though. I will get round to doing the screws and creaming all drive units.
Am I alone in thinking that the aluminium and copper foils are real pigs to get stuck on ?
A couple of questions: How does one do, or create, a super-wipe?
May very kindly sent me some gold message foil with my Int. Pack. Is there an optimum size for this ( I am aware that it depends on the message, but I can write very small and would get more messages on doing it that way)?
Hope someone can help.
10th February 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Update on Cream-Electret
You make a super wipe by making a mark (a small dot) in the centre of a paper tissue with a Black felt tip pen. Yes, you can cut the Gold Foil for writing messages into as small a piece as you wish. For experimenting with messages, you can also use the small white address labels for practicing with different words as your beneficial message. Words such as 'excellent sound' instead of 'better sound' - as in THIS SONY SPEAKER PRODUCES EXCELLENT SOUND. Obviously, the 'treated' Gold Foil we supply gives a much greater effect than the standard white address label but you can experiment without using up the 'precious' Gold Foil just experimenting.
I agree Geoff, our Cream-Electret has proved extremely popular amongst our customers and, as I have said before, in my opinion it should have swept through the audio industry like a whirlwind when we first introduced it 20 years ago.
10th February 2006 From: Michael Anda
Subject: P.W.B. and recording engineers
I'm a P.W.B. newbie and have been reading the Digests and Newsletters with great interest. I've only used the free samples that P.W.B. has graciously supplied along with Geoff Kait's incredible Clever Little Clocks to date. I find the improvement to warrant much enthusiasm.
Studying P.W.B. technique obviously stimulates the imagination, resulting in lots and lots of questions of the "what if" variety.
While reading the various P.W.B. materials one question occurred to me;
What improvement in recording quality would result from the hand of the recording engineer working within an environment that has received a good treating with P.W.B. products, techniques and Clever Little Clocks?
Another question that just came to mind is; Are there any other 3rd party vendors incorporating P.W.B. ideas and products into their product offerings besides Geoff Kait?
Also, I have an unused sample of Memory Foil yet to apply, any tips offered on where to most effectively apply these Memory Foils will be greatly appreciated. I know it has been discussed here, but keeping track of everything is more problematic when overwhelmed with new information.
I look forward to learning much, much more; IOW, expect a lot of questions from me in future months and years. I find this all to be truly fascinating and productive stuff needless to say.
11th February 2006 From: Kevin Kehoe
Subject: Re: (P.W.B.) update on Electret Cream
We have two telephones in the house to both of which I have attached Foils and other P.W.B. treatments. Although both of the phones are identical, foils will just not stay attached to one of them, even if they were nailed on. The answer in those cases is P.W.B. Treated Clear Film. A sheet of it can be cut to suit and stuck over the foils after they have been attached as per their relevant instructions. I have yet to find something that it doesn't stick like mad to. Further to Richard's experience with the disappearing molecule of Electret Cream in his posting Re: super smear. I was cutting a strip of Memory Foil with a pair of scissors the other day when the 3 mm strip sprung out into the room. Although I made a huge search for it I never found it again it is as though it did a quantum leap into another dimension. Picture the scene: It's a parallel Universe and a being is sitting in front of the 3D- O- Vision with cup of coffee in hand. Without his notice, a strip of Memory Foil materialises suddenly on the surface of the coffee table in front of him. A few moments later, he turns to his wife: "Yam, Did you notice that the picture on the 3D-O-Vision has suddenly got better? Must investigate".
11th February 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: P.W.B. and recording engineers
Welcome newbie, from another relative newbie. So much so that, Erm... what's a Clever Little Clock?
The 'what if ' question re recording studio environments is a moot point. Russ Andrews have had success in re-wiring studios with Kimber cables and using their other tweaks ( David Gilmour's studio , if memory serves me well) .These moves have all been accepted as they fit in with conventional engineering practices. When it comes to P.W.B. stuff .... Nothing. Well, nothing that I am aware of.
I know that Peter and May have been at Hi-fi Shows in the past as May has mentioned this in her anecdotes. What sprang into my small, but perfectly formed, mind was ' Have they ever tried to set up a public demonstration, or book space there , to show off their ideas?' By the way ( for anyone that can answer this) whatever happened to Paul Benson and Jimmy Hughes?
Now ,the cynic in me thinks that , a lot of people in the industry knowing what they know, but not wanting to let on that they do know, would try to block it. HFN , as we are all aware gets most of it's funding from advertisers/ manufacturers and, as they, HFN, run the show, would probably not want to rock the boat. It's hypocritical really, as May has already told us about certain manufacturers asking Peter to help them to get a good sound in their rooms.
There are manufacturers out there who offer products that have been frozen. Do they give credit where it's due? Nope.
I have given up on going to shows for various reasons ( overcrowding and poor sound to name but two) . I still read HFN just to try to keep up with what's going on. What amazes me is that there are a lot of manufacturers out there who never cease to produce product after product on every regular basis. Now , I am not one to knock the pursuit of excellence but there seems to be a constant turn-over of products. You just need to look to companies like Krell , Musical Fidelity and Acoustic Research.
When we add in things like surround-sound and the new formats (HDVD and Blu-ray) no wonder Joe/ Joanna Bloggs in the street gets confused and ends up with a Comet special. If people like Barry Fox , a writer whom I have a lot of respect for, admits that, even he, loses his way and patience, no wonder that the industry is in a mess.
I have found that I have gotten a lot more enjoyment from my system since going down the P.W.B. route and I hope to continue to do so. I shall spread the word ( and Cream) to friends, in the hope that they will experience good sound.
Here endeth the rant.
11th February 2006 From: Adrian Bartoli
Subject: P.W.B. for recording
<Russ Andrews have had success in re-wiring studios with Kimber cables and using their other tweaks>
We must consider that these tweaks work partially or largely because of P.W.B. principles, rather than conventional engineering theory.
This suggests the possibility that P.W.B. treatments may be beneficial for recordings, but this has profound implications since the P.W.B. treatments theoretically influence the listener's ability to perceive the true Sound.
By implication, if true, either P.W.B. treatments are not limited by time in our conventional understanding -- that is, the application of the P.W.B. treatments to the Sound production chain in the past extends into the future to affect the listener; or P.W.B. treatments are not limited to affecting perception -- that is, there is a mechanism for the P.W.B. treatments to beneficially affect other processes beyond perception.
Now, I don't mean to imply that it can't be a combination of these two, either -- or possibly something else entirely. I have my own ideas about this, but has anyone else besides me done experiments in this area? Or have another explanation? I would be most interested in hearing what everyone has to say.
12th February 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: P.W.B. and demonstrations.
Yes, we have done public demonstrations at Hi-Fi Shows and, back in 1987, Keith Howard, then the Editor of Hi-Fi Answers personally demonstrated the effect of one of our devices (a specially treated Electret Brush) at two Hi-Fi Shows. But even more importantly, we have done successful PERSONAL demonstrations to many editors of audio magazines, to many audio equipment retailers, to many audio equipment manufacturers, to many audio journalists but the majority of them have chosen to 'hide behind the parapet', away from the guns of ridicule. Jimmy Hughes, Paul Benson and the late Peter Turner showed the most courage !!
Paul Benson is no longer involved in the audio industry (but still uses our devices !).
Jimmy Hughes still writes the odd small article for Hi-Fi magazines but has (obviously) found it to be in his best interests not to mention Peter Belt !!!
The Freezing saga however is a more serious matter. At least the few manufacturers who are known to be 'freezing' their products are showing that they have at least tried the technique ! What is far more serious is the fact that there are so many so called 'professionals in audio' who have not even tried the freezing technique, because they dismiss it out of hand saying "It cannot work, therefore it does not work, therefore there is no point in trying it."
Also there is yet another aspect and that is publishing articles ridiculing the simple freezing technique without even trying it.
One serious example of this is the following :-
In the January 1993 issue of Audiophile, Jimmy Hughes published his experiences after using the simple freezing technique described to him by Peter. Although Jimmy shied away from mentioning freezing other audio things such as cables etc. and stayed with only describing freezing CDs, at least he had the courage to write about the subject.
However, in the January 1994 issue of Hi-Fi News, Ken Kessler attacked such as Jimmy's article, accusing the Audiophile magazine of irresponsibility, of exposing the audio industry to ridicule after some of the popular press had written comic articles about putting CDs in the freezer next to the frozen peas !!
To quote Ken :-
"The non hi-fi public sees the turmoil about freezing more as an act of ludicrous desperation, the hobby mentality gone awry. Is it any wonder people move away from you if you open up a hi-fi magazine on a train ? How this daft revival (freezing !) came about I don't know. Why it took three years for some desperate-for-features editor or some idea-barren journalist to plunder a back issue of Stereophile for a topic which was then bastardised beyond belief I also do not know....... Whether you regard a flaky tweak as a secret to be shared only with the deserving, or think of it as something shameful and best kept locked away, you don't hand it on a plate to the baying hounds at the newspapers." Ken Kessler."
12th February 2006 From: Heiko Wingender
Subject:: Update on Cream-Electret
I have found the advice "DO NOT use a paper handkerchief" for applying Cream-Electret in the instructions. But for wiping away any surplus a paper tissue as super wipe is really recommend? I would appreciate if you could shed some light on this apparent inconsistency.
12th February 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Yes, you are right, and sorry about the inconsistency in the instructions for the Cream-Electret. I will have to alter that. The original intention was to have people use something which did not contain any chemicals.
The instructions for using the Cream-Electret was written nearly 20 years ago just at the time when there was being marketed various versions of paper tissues which had been impregnated with such as lanolin (to make them softer to use). We also knew that the standard paper tissues had been through a bleaching process during the manufacturing process so we decided that the safest recommendation would be to recommend that people use a plain cloth.
Unfortunately there also does not seem to be anything as simple as a plain cloth because when cloths are washed, they are washed in a combination of chemicals and, quite often, more chemicals are added during the final rinse with such as fabric softeners.
I think that using a super wipe (a paper tissue with a black dot in the centre) will be the best solution.
12th February 2006 From: Heiko Wingender
May, thanks a lot for the fast response. Your explanation is very comprehensible to me. Then it is the added chemicals which could deteriorate the effect not the cellulose of the paper tissue itself which I have been assuming first.
Do you think that a (non washed) microfiber tissue is also suitable as super wipe?
As far as I know they do not contain any chemicals.
I also suspect almost every paper tissue is bleached or otherwise treated.
13th February 2006 From: Kevin Kehoe
Subject: Re: P.W.B. for recording
From the moment I perceived my first significant P.W.B. sound lift many years ago now, I have pondered upon the implications of the Belt's work. I greatly admire Richard Graham's ideas in coming up with experiments to test for answers to some of the questions you pose. The one a few years back, involving some of us finding and downloading music files that had been P.W.B. treated so that they could then be compared with identical non treated discs, was particularly inspired. Unfortunately, this experiment had to be curtailed early - if I remember correctly. I have a CD by the band The Disaster Unit. This recording has had P.W.B. enhancement but at what stage in the recording process I do not know. Although it is certainly a quality recording, it does not stand above all the other recordings of similar music in my collection, it would however, be there with the best of them.
16th February 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: Questions re treated light source for applying Morphic liquid
Hello all, first question: I was going back through old newsletters and saw on one about absolutely having a treated light source on before applying Morphic liquid. I have been spraying sparingly on CDs, TV screen, Laptop screen, etc., without light and seems to enhance foils, cream and messages anyway.? I did treat (after reading on forum or newsletter) a small aluminium LCD torch-creamed battery body and torch casing, 'x26'x on gold foil on battery , Sol-Electret on casing threads and bat. terminals and even wrote 'X26'X backwards on torch lens-with RED x PEN. Used this to shine on 'x26'x message on CDs etc. -Hard to tell if the torch idea improves sound perception (looks cool though, when shone onto white surface, RED X26X looks kind of eirie? as it comes into focus. Have also recently treated my digital set top box, and last night watching TV -Well, it appears I no longer have a TV as we know it (Scotty) but am able to watch the actors perform through a crystal clear window!!!
Had more questions but they elude me at the moment, may be a good time to bring up issue of users manual? -catalogue of suggested uses? I am willing to partake in compiling above (albeit with my min. of experience) - maybe take one product at a time - e.g.: rainbow foil ,then for a week or so all contributors post suggestions, and perceived results-then some poor bugger compiles a list( and here's where my lack of computer skills becomes apparent) and sets up a link to the ever expanding list of suggested uses?
Just some thoughtful food.....
16th February 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: P.W.B. User Manual.
Michael's suggestion regarding a P.W.B. User Manual is a good one.
This P.W.B. discussion group was set up in the first place to exchange ideas and experiences between P.W.B. customers so the wealth of knowledge and experience within this group will be a great asset to this User Manual. As suggested by Michael - to discuss one product at a time, with your experimental results and with a new product starting each week. Please put in the title line, the name of the product so that threads are easy to keep tabs of. The whole thing could then be collated into an online manual.
We are trying to reformat the style of the P.W.B. Web Page as it initially started as a simple front page with links and has grown to a larger format front page. We are still wishing to keep it with no moving graphics, or bells and whistles but it will have a photo/image section so the products can be viewed on line.
Any suggestions to the layout or sample web pages would be useful. Examples of good online web pages so others can view and rate them as to how they would prefer the P.W.B. page to end up looking. The philosophy here is KISS (keep it simple stupid !).
Starting Monday 20th February 2006 - subject - P.W.B. Silver Rainbow Foil.
Let the discussion begin.
16th February 2006 From: Dennis Carne
Subject: Re: Questions re treated light source for applying Morphic liquid
What a really, really good idea! I get lost with the various treatments and creams etc.., a catalogue would be brilliant.
19th February 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: Silver Rainbow Foil - Ideas
Hello All, It's Mon. 20th so here's my little contribution
1: When placing S R FOIL on objects with Morphic messages (either GOLD MESSAGE FOIL, or adhesive labels) place the S R FOIL halfway across message and object to link the two together.
2: Place a FOIL in one corner of a dedicated Microfibre sunglass cloth, which is used solely for the purpose of wiping off excess ELECTRET CREAM. You will soon have a treated cloth that imparts molecules of CREAM onto anything it is wiped over.
That's my bit, until again,
21st February 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Regarding P.W.B. product manual.
If there are any members of the P.W.B. Yahoo discussion group who do not already have the Rainbow Foil to experiment with, if they would let me have their full postal address I will be pleased to send them a sample. I would suggest that the second P.W.B. product for people to describe their personal experiences of should be the Cream-Electret. Again, if there are any members of the P.W.B. Yahoo discussion group who do not have Cream-Electret to experiment with, if they would let me have their full postal address I will be pleased to send them a sample.
22nd February From: Arkie Martherus
Subject: my bank card
I did it!
Since we all carry our banking card all the time with us, I wondered upon a way to treat it in a way no one has done it before.
Simply let the bank company print the x 26-message on it:
http://photos.yahoo.com/ (browse to the P.W.B. -x 26 album and click on the picture) You can also find it in the "Links"- section on your left.
I now have an official card with a P.W.B. -message in its design!
22nd February 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: Regarding P.W.B. product manual.
It appears that Big Rob , who lives across the road from me , followed my suggestion and sent for some Rainbow Foil. Unbeknown to me he set up a trial listening session at his house with ( supposedly) me and his mate , Andy. When I didn't show they went ahead on their own, presuming that I was not well. I spoke to Rob and he said that they were gob-smacked but couldn't rationalise it. I asked if they did this and that and he said that he had just 'followed the instructions on the tin'. The upshot is that I am going over , cream and foils in hand, to try to impart what little knowledge that I have gleaned so far. Things are moving in the right direction.
This brings me to my next point. Thank the Lord for this Forum. I had used up all the foils in the Intermediate pack and had done some other bits and pieces( messages on gold foil and Sol-Electret treatments). I sat down to listen and Wow , things sounded great. I decided to sign and 'x26'x the disc that I had just played, put it back in the CD player and ...it all collapsed . The whole thing went small and recessed. Now , from reading the Forum I was aware that this may happen and had read that an additional treatment would return things back to 'normal'. I remembered that I had not treated a picture in the room that had recently been bought for us. Out came the Rainbow foil and Cream and then , after the treatment, I sat back down to listen. The sound was returned back to it's former glory, and then some. Had I had not read of this before I would be mightily confused and peeved off. As I say, thank the Lord for the forum.
On the Rainbow foil-- It's best to put them in unobtrusive places . That way it's not seen by other-halves and you can get away with placing a whole lot more all around the place.
I usually cut quite a few at one time and they have a habit of flipping over and you don't know if you have used one or not. What I do is just bend the backing in half after I have used the foil. That way you can readily identify the unused ones. A small point but it does save a bit of time.
People comment on the TV picture getting a whole lot better after treatments. I have seen improvements, not so much on the TV in the listening room, but on the one up here in the middle bed-room! Spooky. Mind you, the room has been treated as has the PC ( the monitor of which is now so much clearer).
23rd February 2006 From: Adrian Bartoli
Subject: When P.W.B. makes things bad!
I am most interested in occasions when this has happened to people. Could everyone please post ANY experiences they have had where the sound went worse, what they did to make it worse, and what they did to rectify the situation?
Either on the forum or by e-mail, I look forward to the reply!
25th February 2006 From: Bill Kollins
Subject: Re: When P.W.B. makes things bad!
I've had the experience a number of times where I've applied a P.W.B. treatment or done a suggested freebie treatment and the sound went bad - sometimes very bad. I was always able to correct the problem one way or another. The first instance involved pinning up the corners of the curtains in the listening room. The curtains had eight bottom corners and I pinned them all. I then turned on the music to hear the (hopefully) improved sound but what I heard was no improvement; the bass had all but disappeared. That was easily cured by removing pins one at a time until I found the sound I liked (ended up with about four pinned corners). But what impressed me most about that experience was how something like pinning the corners of curtains could so dramatically impact the sound. The other thing was that psychologically I was expecting an improvement but got just the opposite; so much for the skeptics' explanation that we hear improvements because that's what we expect.
Another freebie I tried was tying reef knots in power cords and interconnects. I would tie them one at a time and listen. After tying several I got a sound that I thought was worse than before I started adding the knots. But instead of removing the knots I tied some more on other power cords and that not only remedied the problem but led to a greater improvement. I guess you just have to experiment.
In my most recent such experience I had applied ink from a Chunky Violet Pen to the lead contacts on two light bulbs in the listening room, sprayed the bulb portions with Morphic Liquid and wiped them dry with a Super Wipe. When I turned the music on I was stunned - by how bad it sounded. Instead of trying to clean off the violet ink and Morphic liquid, however, I added another treatment elsewhere in the room. I think it was a strip of Quantum Foil. It did the trick.
This sort of thing has happened to me many times. Often it was more of a change in the sound that I didn't particularly care for rather than a degradation. But every time I was able to remedy the situation by applying another treatment elsewhere in the room.
Another interesting thing I'd like to pass on in this regard is that sometimes the addition of a strip of foil, such as Real Foil, to a particular CD has been too much of a good thing (to my ears anyway). I find that Real Foil tends to smooth out the sound of a CD and some CDs don't benefit from that. Then when I've removed the foil strip I didn't like that sound too much either. What I needed was something in between. I've usually gotten that in between sound by applying the foil strip to the CD case. Try it, you may like it.
I hope this is of some help to you.
26th February 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Re: When P.W.B. makes things bad !
Interesting posting Bill, thanks for your information. I hope it is interesting and informative for our other readers.
I will separate what we refer to as 'freebies' (naturally occurring things which change sound) from our own specially treated devices.
What you came up against Bill, with the 'freebie treatments', is a peculiar "odd and even" rule which Peter observed a long time ago. If you want the sound to improve, you pin back ONE corner of a curtain and only ONE corner ! You place a plain piece of paper under ONE (and only ONE) of the four feet of equipment. You tie ONE reef knot in a cable.
We do not have an adequate explanation for this 'odd and even' phenomena, we just know that it happens. We could say that pinning back one corner in a curtain, tying one reef knot in a cable breaks the pattern which we (human beings) are reacting adversely to but that explanation does not hold up under scrutiny. Because, logically, pinning back two corners or tying two reef knots would also be 'breaking the pattern' and yet pinning back two corners in one curtain or tying two reef knots in one cable causes the sound to deteriorate !! And, as you so succinctly put it Bill, how amazed you were to realise just what a change in the sound could be made by such as pinning back one of the corners of a curtain - so something unusual must be going on !! Others in the world of audio have also observed something happening with the 'odd and even' subject. Regularly in the audio press there are debates (arguments) when someone claims that three (or five) feet on equipment 'sound' better than the usual four feet or three spikes or three cones 'sound' better than four spikes or cones. However, any such debate usually revolves around vibrations as an explanation !! But, when the 'odd' rule applies to other things which could not be explained by any theories regarding vibrations, then the 'vibrations' theory begins to look shaky also !!
Because Peter has known of this 'odd and even rule' for a long time, great care is always taken and a great deal of experimentation is always carried out when producing our various devices to make sure that our devices will go in multiple places and will always be complimentary and in addition to each other. With the naturally occurring treatments, it may well be that certain energy patterns are changed away from being adverse to being 'more comfortable' but our own P.W.B. devices and treatments are specifically designed to actually superimpose a 'friendly/relaxing/reassuring' energy pattern onto objects and into the listening environment.
As you say Bill, any change in the sound you hear when using our devices may be one you are not used to but is not necessarily a degradation and, at other times when you removed the treatment you had just done and got yourself back to the original (untreated) situation, you no longer liked THAT (original) sound.
What I liked from your posting Bill is that you have been aware enough to experiment, realising that there are many ways to gain improvements in your sound !! And, that just a simple strip of Rainbow Foil applied to something else not already treated can usually achieve this for you.
26th February 2006 From: Steve Paines
Subject: Cable length
At the Bristol Hi-Fi show this weekend I had the opportunity to meet Lars Kristensen of Nordost cables.
It was very interesting to hear of their work outside of audio. Their cables connect the NASA main frame computers and are used by Intel who wanted the 'fastest cable' that could be manufactured.
They also do a lot of work in the medical industry where their cables are used in pacemakers. They also make cables so fine you cannot see or feel the finished product where it is so thin. These are used in brain surgery.
The part of our discussion which interested me was the concept of an optimum length for cable. Any type including bell wire he said. Nordost research has shown the optimum length for a able is 4 metres 26.5 cm. (Please don't quote me on the centimetres). This is if its a digital, mains, speaker or interconnect cable. They could also demonstrate the fact with the different lengths of the same model interconnect. Yes the 1.5 metre length performs better than the 0.6 metre. This is very strange because cables act as a filter in Nordost's view. You would think the shorter the cable the less the filter effect.
My question for May is has Peter done any tests on the length of cable in his research. What is going on if cable has an optimum length where it performs at its best?
26th February 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Re: Cable length
Steve, my question would be. Are Nordost talking about how a certain length of cable 'sounds' i.e.. no measurements - just how it sounds ? You see, I know that a cable (made with the same materials) will 'sound' different with a different length but I also know that a cable (made with the same materials) will 'sound' different if you change the colour of the insulation material or a cable (made with the same materials) will sound better if you tie a reef knot in it !! Or if you apply a specific chemical to the outside insulation. I also know that if you take what Nordost would regard as a non optimum length of cable (one which they would regard as not sounding as good as the cable with the optimum length) and you tie a reef knot in it, you will have it sounding better - or if you apply our Cream-Electret to its outer insulation you will have it sounding better. So, even if there was an optimum length of cable, then you yourself Steve could make that cable sound worse by tying TWO reef knots in it or changing the colour of the outer insulation !! What I do not believe is that all of those things are 'having any effect' on the signal going along the cable - and that is the dilemma facing anyone who 'hears' these things having any effect - it does not fit in with conventional electronic theories. What I do not know is whether Nordost are still thinking along the conventional 'it must be having an effect on the signal' or whether they have had to look elsewhere (as Peter had to do) for other explanations. The only explanation which fits all the research Peter has done these past 25 years is the explanation that it is the human being who is doing the reacting.
27th February 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Cable length
Perhaps Steve I can give a more measured response to your latest 'posting' than my somewhat hurried reply yesterday.
I will try to talk you through it.
Whilst I respect Nordost's expertise in making cables of all different styles and configurations, I find some of their recent explanations to be somewhat blinkered. I repeat again something which I always say. "I do not challenge Nordost's (or others) observations, what I challenge are their explanations as to why some of the things they describe can give improvements to the sound".
If Nordost, from all their investigations, have concluded that there is an optimum length (4 metres 26.5cm) of cable for the best sound, do they believe that the reason for the better sound is because the optimum length is somehow being beneficial to the signal travelling along it ?
What other experiments have they done ?
From mine and Peter's experiences over these past 25 years, we know that if (say) the same optimum length of cable is used with exactly the same construction and exactly the same materials but with the outer insulation a different colour, then the sound could be much, much worse !! Now, if Nordost's understanding was that the optimum length of cable WAS being beneficial to the signal and that was why the sound of it was good, then, logically, that beneficial effect would still be there - irrespective of what colour the outer insulation was !! But, if the sound is now worse by using a different colour for the outer insulation but with the optimum length still the same, then the original explanation (that the optimum length was being beneficial to the signal) no longer holds up under further scrutiny !!
So, if Nordost had done further experiments and had experienced the effect of changing the insulation colour made the sound worse, then they would be back to square one. I.e. That they would be aware that the optimum length of cable gave the best sound but had no explanation as to why or how - PLUS now they would have the added experience of changing the colour of the insulation and changing the sound !!
If the effect is not on the signal travelling through the cable, then one has to experiment with cables which are not associated with the audio equipment to see if a pattern emerges which could give further clues. Say, hypothetically, experimenting with the cable belonging to the table lamp sitting passively on the shelf, or with the cable belonging to the electric clock, or with the cable belonging to the heater in the fish tank. If Nordost had continued with their investigations in these areas, they would have found something unusual happening.
1) If they had used an optimum length cable on the table lamp and listened to some music, the sound would probably be perceived as good. If they had then changed the cable to one of (say) half a metre (but still of the same construction and materials) and then listened to the same music, they would probably find the sound was worse. But, if they then went back and used the optimum length cable on the table lamp again but this time changed the colour of the outer insulation material, they could now find the sound to be much worse. Showing that the effect experienced with cables in the audio system is also experienced with identical cables used on objects which are in no way associated with the audio system !!
2) If, in the course of their investigations, Nordost tried all the different colours for the outer insulation material, listened to their effect on the sound, graded the colours in order of preference and agreed one colour to be the best sounding, then what you do next is to test that particular colour on other cables.
3) Let us say, hypothetically, that the colour Blue emerged as the best 'sounding' colour for the outer insulation of a cable. Let us imagine that the insulation colour of the cable belonging to the heater of the fish tank is Black. What you do now is to wrap some Blue insulation tape around the outside (on top of the Black insulation) of the fish tank heater and listen to some music. If the colour Blue IS the best colour, then the sound would be good and as soon as the Blue insulation tape was removed from around the cable, the sound would, in contrast, be perceived as worse !!
Now Nordost would be faced with more questions.
Why does the optimum length of cable sound the best - in all the situations ?
Why does the (hypothetical) colour Blue for the outer insulation sound the best - in all the situations Why is there an identical effect on the sound, irrespective of whether the cable is belonging to the audio system or to other objects in the room ?.
What is being affected and how ?
On the subject of colours. If the scientists are correct - that all the colours are absorbed by an object or material except the one colour we can see.
If the scientists are correct - that the different colours have a different frequency, then this means that all the frequencies but one are absorbed by the object or material.
Are we (human beings) then sensitive to these different frequencies being absorbed by an object or material ? Is that why the sound can change when you change the colour ?
In a Questions and Answers interview in Hi-Fi Choice, Joe Reynolds, president of Nordost claimed that their Eco 3 liquid would improve the sound of cables - ALL cables - interconnects, loudspeaker cables, POWER CABLES !!, video cables, the label side of CDs and even the centre label of vinyl LPs !!! The explanation he put forward is that their liquid prevents the deterioration of the signal as it passes along the cables !! All this gives me the impression that they have not investigated the effect of their liquid on cables NOT associated with the audio system. If they had, they would not be so adamant that the effect is to do with the audio signal !!
Most of our customers who have 'creamed' their cables, or applied sections of Spiratube to their cables, or applied the various coloured Ring Ties, or tied a Reef knot in their cables - ALL cables - whether belonging to the audio equipment or not - are already aware that there is something happening with cables which affects the sound but has nothing to do with 'an effect on the signal'.
I have told the story many times of our visits to various audio retailers. How, when the retailer was not demonstrating such as Quad Electrostatic speakers, the Quad speakers were usually stored in a corridor outside the listening room. How Peter has gone into the corridor, tied a Reef knot in the power cords of the Quad speakers, gone back into the listening room, everyone has then listened to some music, heard the sound improve, then Peter has gone out into the corridor and removed the Reef Knot and everyone has listened again - but this time 'cringing' at the worse sound !! We have left one retailer after another with their mouths still open in amazement at the effect a Reef knot can have on the cables of PASSIVE objects !!
You see how I can be left with the feeling that by Nordost concentrating on the one aspect (the actual length of a cable) i.e.. that there is an optimum length for a cable - is somewhat narrow and blinkered when there are so many other factors which they do not seem to be taking into consideration. There are so many more things happening concerning cables and sound.
Peter has been working with a device for a number of years now (in experimental form - not an actual consumer device) which is placed dead centre of a cable - any cable, of any length and which gives an improvement in the sound. But, if Peter moves this device an inch or so away, either side of dead centre of the cable, the sound is perceived as worse. Something is happening along the length of the cable which changes at the centre and we have no idea what. But, from our numerous experiments, what we DO know is that it is not the signal which is being affected !!
28th February 2006 From: Adrian Bartoli
Subject: Cable length problems
I take it what you are saying, May, is that there may have been other confounding variables in the Nordost experiment that led to the 426 cm cable length that Nordost did not take into consideration, and, therefore, the results may or may not be valid.
I wonder if you have ever done any tests with cable length yourselves? For example, I know that we all habitually have the negative and positive legs of cables the same length. I have found that when this is not true, the sound can be much much worse, no explanation forthcoming from conventional electronic theory.
28th February 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: Cable length
Nothing like a bit of controversy to enable a 'Lazarus-like' effect to get one out of some post-viral lethargy.
May, you suggest the multitudinous confounding variables that might distort the results from an experiment, yet mention Peter has an experimental device (and will it become available?!!!) that has some relationship to perhaps similar spatial matters. I have no idea how Nordost might have come to this conclusion, but they have hit upon a number that might hold significance. After all, some numbers do (e.g. 26). Also, as we have seen in the history of science, certain observed phenomena (aspirin, maggots in wounds) obtain different, and hopefully more enlightened explanations, as science progresses. It is very tempting to find out more from Nordost, but following my understanding of Kuhn, if there is value in Peter's theories, they should be able to predict responses in other areas.
So, turning it around, and eliminating all of those other variables, is it possible that a particular length of cable could have a beneficial effect, because of it's number? I realise in typing this, that if that is so, would 4.265 in other measures (?Imperial) also work?
28th February 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Rainbow Foil
Apologies for the delay in contributing.
I will confine myself to 5 unusual sites, that have an impact, but may have passed you by....
2. Mobile phone battery
3. Gas meter
5. The bath (and toilet, and sink...)
6. All of the above (i.e.. everywhere)
28th February 2006 From: Michael Parin
Hello All, and Richard's returning health means I now have something to read again!
Impatience plus reading old newsletters produce results- definitely, it's just impossible to know what is doing what. I have just installed at random, components, furniture etc., 25 small quarter rounds (SR foil, creamed, mor. liq. and DUBFRO - my new abb. For double frozen, slow thawed) Also tried small plastic strips frozen in Mor. Liquid bottle with treated light applications throughout. then stuck randomly with double sided tape.
Well, what I had before, I've now got more of, and that is rightness. the sound from my speakers just sounds more right as more of my environment gets treated. I play the drums, and naturally (maybe not ?)I focus on drums sounds as I listen, my ribcage rattles with the bass drum, I can feel the tension of the snare drum- it's heavenly, and there's still about 90 % of P.W.B. products I haven't even tried yet.
Stupidity : introducing P.W.B. theories to people without them experiencing at least foil demo first. Note to self :demonstrate P.W.B. effectiveness first before raising P.W.B. theory. I feel almost guilty that I have shut out 2 people from P.W.B. induced musical heaven, through a combination of impatience and a strong desire to share what P.W.B. has to offer the music lover.
28th February 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: Cable length problems
If I remember this correctly, there was a 'free' P.W.B. tip a few years back in relation to cable, not entirely dissimilar from what you are asking. In the 'olden' days, when men were men, and all had LP12s and Isobariks, and 'Dire Straits' was a group rather than a predicament, 'positive' cables were associated with even numbers, and 'negative' cables with odd numbers. So a simple tip was to have two runs of cable to the positive terminals, and a single to the negative ones. Of course this makes no sense in electrical theory, but little does really.
It is an interesting idea as to whether 'non-standard' lengths help. I put it this way, as the Morphic resonance associated with following any regular pattern might have unexpected, adverse sideeffects. Breaking the pattern (e.g. plugging your CD player cables into a socket not labelled 'CD') can really help.
28th February 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: In Your Philosophy - The Cable Question (Denmark Style)
As many of you will know, there is a famous quote in 'Hamlet' that seems particularly relevant to recent posts. In Act I, Scene V, we have these immortal words:
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
I quote this, because what May, Lars Kristensen, Ivor Tiefenbrun, or anyone else for that matter, all have is some sort of model of the world, or philosophy, that informs their thinking. Yet all are approximations, and much is literally beyond the wildest of dreams, that primitive mental process for apprehending what has been intuited. One simply cannot know from any one model all that 'is', without the crude effects of distortion and domination.
The problem we have - as evidenced by the benefits of global P.W.B.'ing - is how to effect change in someone's philosophy, to allow something undreamt of, or unfamiliar, to be perceived. The P.W.B. model, though 25 years old has evolved considerably, yet cannot explain everything, and it is unfair to ask it to (though I try regularly...). The answer might lie in experiment and independence, and not on the philosophies that pour from the mouths' of others.
And so who amongst us is willing to try two lengths of cable cut to 4.265 metres (is this correct?), compared with a shorter length? Unless this is an issue that just applies to Nordost cables (let's
hope not), presumably something like twin and earth cable would suffice.
But then, if there is an effect, how does it hold up if Spiratube or Electret Cream are fitted?
And are any of you called Horatio, per chance?.....
28th February 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Re: Cable length
Perhaps I can reply to both Adrian and Richard in this one reply.
Adrian, no we have not specifically investigated the differing lengths of cables. Because, 25 years ago our experiments were showing that there were so many different variables concerning cables that we made the decision to go down the path of producing universal treatments and devices which could 'treat' ALL cables, of all lengths, of all colours of insulation, in use anywhere in the world.
Both Adrian and Richard use the description of 'confounding variables'. The length of cables and the colour of the insulation are only SOME of the confounding variables. Other, even more significant variables, are the different mixes of chemicals used in the various cable insulation materials - such as bextrene, PVC, polythene, polethylene, polystrene, polyurethane, polypropylene, polyalkene, Teflon, PTFE etc.. And, another controversial variable - whether the cable has been through the freezing process or not !!
I do not challenge Nordost's observation but what I think is that they are not fully aware of all the variables. Even Peter and I are not aware of all variables which might be significant. When Peter discovers yet another variable which affects the sound he knows that even if he finds a solution to that particular variable, yet another variable will eventually rear it's head !!
The answer to your other question Richard is no, I don't think the device I referred to will become available - it is too much in an experimental form, but Peter's research into why it works as it does may, eventually, produce another very effective Foil.
Now to Richard's query if 4265 cms could be a significant number. IF it is a significant number, then getting a piece of wire that particular length and draping it across a loudspeaker cabinet or across a table or just placed passively on the carpet should give you an improvement in the sound in your listening room - it would not have to be actually connected into the audio system !! In exactly the same way as one Reef knot is a beneficial device, by just being a Reef knot - it can be in a cable belonging to the audio system or in a cable belonging to the vacuum cleaner in a cupboard or in the pull cord of the light switch in the bathroom or in the pull cord of a curtain or window blind - it will still give an improvement in the sound !!
But, as I have tried to explain, if the particular (optimum) length of wire does not give you an improvement in the sound it might be because the insulation is the wrong colour or is made of a particularly adverse mix of chemicals !! You could have the optimum length but the wrong colour, you could have a good colour but the wrong length, you could have both the wrong length AND the wrong colour but it might sound good because it has been through the freezing process !! All these variables and yet people in the audio world are arguing constantly as to whether anyone can (should) be able to hear differences in cables, whether these differences could be measured - and (even more contentiously) the 'measurers' argue that if the differences cannot be measured, then the differences cannot have taken place !!
So, to your latest question Richard "But then, if there is an effect, how does it hold up if Spiratube or Electret Cream are fitted?"
As I explained at the beginning, we tried to develop devices and techniques which would have a universal beneficial effect, irrespective of the particular peculiarities of cables and other things. So, the Cream and Spiratube will superimpose, over and above any other effect, a friendly/relaxing/reassuring energy pattern which we (human beings) can respond beneficially to.
3rd March 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Re: Cable length
I have been taken to task by one of our customers, Ron, who thinks that I might have come across (particularly to people who are new to P.W.B. techniques and concepts) as a bit too harsh in my response to Steve's question " Has Peter done any tests on the length of cable in his research. ?" If I did, then I apologise to Steve who was only asking a simple question. As most of our established customers already know, my intention is always purely to try to guide people away from singling out and concentrating on one particular aspect of the different areas associated with audio, be the area cable design, or electronic circuit design, or electronic component design, or disc player design, or amplifier design, or loudspeaker design. Yes, Peter did a considerable amount of experimentation concerning cables but it was the very results of all those experiments which led him to realise the enormity of the various things contributing to and affecting the perception of sound.
3rd March 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: Cable length
May, I think we all understand that you are very passionate about Peter's work, and if I have learnt anything about the processes of 'genius', it involves an enormous degree of strength and single- mindedness. Nordost clearly follow their own path, as Peter does his own, lonely though it may be. But if acceptance of new truths is inherently filled with tension, if not hostility, then I guess within the forum (and elsewhere) we have to try to contain this tension as best we can. Still, we are all human, and I found your second response thoughtful, and full of insights. The idea that you don't actually have to connect the wire, and that the effect should be detectable within the room without such a step, might be new to some. The first response I can see though might have been read more as a 'Nordost don't know anything', rather than the clarification of all the variables that might confound their results. It is the same issue with other tweaks, as we have recently discussed; the apparent benefit may not be due to the explanation in the accompanying literature.
I have sometimes 'Googled', only to find some pretty offensive remarks from myself, either from pages of the Newsletter, or in terms of letters to Hi-Fi Choice. I quite admire those that don't suffer fools, as long as they have the intellectual equipment to support it. I sadly think of many audio journalists these days as fools, and feel I only get sense from my audio dealer, and he has many tales to tell. It seems to me that the accusations that Peter exploits his customers is a simple matter of 'projection'; there is so much outrageous exploitation within the industry (including within the cable companies) that rather than bear the responsibility or guilt for that, figures like Peter are ascribed that quality and demonised.
But the burden you and Peter have to bear is that many of us do not want to do the experimental bit, and sort of want you and Peter to do it. I believe you want us to think and take part in a sharing of experience, of experiments, to aid progress, and support the developments. But as you know well, whilst you hardy Yorkshire folk suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous weather, we southerners grow fat and lazy in our sunny climes, and might want the experiments to be done by someone else, however strong or odd their accent...
I have to say though it did stimulate in myself something I have puzzled over for years, and for which the audio world has given conflicting advice. For a number of reasons, it may suit me to put my power amplifier closer to the speakers. But which is best - long interconnects/short speaker leads or short interconnects/long speaker leads. In the UK, Harry Hill would answer this with a shout of 'fight!', but if anyone has clear experience of this dilemma, I would welcome the thoughts.
4th March 2006 From: Adrian Bartoli
Subject: Re: Cable length
I'll bite, did Peter find some optima for cables, then?
3rd Mach 2006 From: Steve Paines
Subject: Re: Cable length
Richard I can share with you my thoughts on the interconnect/speaker length debate. In the USA the preference is to use long interconnects and then short speaker cables because the amps are close by.
In Europe we tend to go for much shorter interconnects and longer speaker cables. If we turn to electronic theory the voltages going through an interconnect are much smaller than going through a speaker cable. So I believe there is more tendency for some of that more delicate signal to get lost in the cable resulting in lost detail. However, modern amplifiers are happy driving longer speaker cables but can end up driving the cable if too long.
I have done a P.W.B. experiment of my own recently by accident. We are coming to the end of a house restoration and are presently working on the bathroom. This has resulted in us decanting all the contents of that room into my listening room. This includes cleaning chemicals, aerosols etc.. I have noticed that although the sound is still there its harder to get 'into' the music where it captures your concentration 100% and keeps you interested.
Now when the room is finished and these offending items are removed I will be interested to note if there is any subsequent improvement in sound quality. I will keep you all posted.
No May I wasn't offended but pleased you took the trouble to respond (more than once). One observation I would make is that you suggested introducing a cable of the ideal length and draping it over a loudspeaker. I just wondered if this goes against the P.W.B. principle of having the least number of cables present in the listening room. I guess I was just recalling your story where you called round to the Hi-Fi reviewer and Peter noticed all the cables lying around dormant waiting to be reviewed. Once they were removed the sound improved immediately.
4th March 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Re: Cable length
No, Adrian, we did not do experiments on actual different lengths of cables. Peter was diverted before that point was reached. I think my following reply to Steve may help to explain why.
As I have explained in the talks I gave, in his investigations into the 'sound' of cables and wires, Peter went from listening to the sound of different metals, found that the metal Lead was the best sounding metal from all the metals he tried, then progressing from having cables made entirely of pure Lead to having Lead tubes to connect at the end of normal, standard copper cables. It was discovering that when he attached a Lead tube at the end of ANY standard cable, of ANY length, whether that cable was a half metre long interconnect or a five metre long speaker cable, and achieving an improvement in the sound each time, that he slowly began to realise what must be happening. He began to realise that his training in conventional electronics could no longer help him to understand what he was hearing, and that he had to begin to look 'outside the box' for an explanation. This was the point where he realised that just working on the subject of the 'sound' of cables was too narrow. So, his original work on cables and then other subsequent discoveries strengthened the developing concept that 'it is the human being who is doing the reacting'. The rest, as they say, is now part of the history of audio.
Now, Stephen, I never asked you if Nordost had actually given an explanation as to why they thought there was an optimum length for a cable. Were they thinking that this was the optimum length for the signal ? If so, did they say what was happening to the signal at this particular optimum length that did not happen at any other length ? Or, was this optimum length the one which 'sounded' the best but that they had no technical explanation for ? Now, I am going to apologise beforehand for using the word 'magical' but I cannot think of another word quickly enough to describe what I want to say !! If there is no technical explanation for why there should be an optimum length, if it was purely that this length 'sounded' the best length, and if there IS actually a 'magical' length associated with good sound, then there is a strong possibility that it is the human being who is reacting to the energy pattern associated with that particular length (reacting less harshly than they would to the energy patterns associated with other lengths). If that is the case, then that optimum length of cable, just being in the room, draped over a loudspeaker cabinet would sound better IN COMPARISON to an identically made cable but of a different length. I must emphasise that sentence again. It is the comparison between the different lengths of cable which is the crucial experiment. By saying this, I am not contradicting P.W.B. theory that passive cables strewn around the room adversely affect the sound - because just bringing any (passive) cable into the room could have an adverse effect on the sound but you should be able to do COMPARATIVE listening tests between different lengths of passive cables.
Let me spell the experiment out. You bring into the room only the optimum length cable, drape it over the loudspeaker cabinet (or place it on the carpet) and listen to a track of music. You allow your working memory to register that sound. You then remove the optimum length of cable out of the room and bring in a cable of identical construction but of a different length, drape that over the loudspeaker cabinet and listen to the same track of music. If the sound is perceived as worse with the different length cable then, yes, there is something happening which then (as I say repeatedly) has to be investigated - that is - has to be investigated if you are a 'professional in audio' !!
As I have tried to explain in my paper 'Cable Controversy' and in my talk on the 'Cable Controversy', the common belief that 'somehow or other changing a certain wire or cable, inserted into the middle of an audio system, is handling the signal better' does not hold up under serious scrutiny. There has to be 'something else going on'.
5th March 2006 From: Chris Porada
Subject: Re: 30 gauge cables
Someone posted a few weeks back about using 30 gauge speaker wire. I have some pure silver 30 gauge wire I bought to make interconnects, and am curious how one goes about using 30 gauge wire for speaker cable while maintaining some degree of safety; i.e.., the wire is so thin, how do you attach it to the binding posts and ensure it doesn't inadvertently break? I'm currently using a single run of Cat5e wires (24 gauge, I think) and the sound is fantastic compared to my previous thick cables, so I'm eager to try even thinner, especially since they're silver, but am afraid they'll snap without my noticing and blow my amp or damage my speakers.
Any help would be appreciated
6th March 2006 From: Arkie Martherus
Subject: question for Richard
As I believe you are a psychiatrist, do you use P.W.B.-treatments in your therapy room? And do they help, to make patients at ease, or let them cure more quickly?
6th March 2006 From: Arkie Martherus
Subject: Re length
Humans are always reacting to anything of metal with a certain length. They 'resonate' with the various lengths, or organs within the human body do. I therefore changed my treat-priority. First: find metal objects in the listening room of metal, incl. Wires, and treat them first. Especially lengths between about 5cm. to 1.80 m., the size of a human body.
E.g. I found that a metal wine rack with a height of 1.10 m. Deteriorated the music. Treatment helped, but it helped more when I got rid of it:) My wife didn't like it anyway.
Now, still no explanation of the beneficial 4265 cm.
6th March 2006 From: Arkie Martherus
Subject: question photograph
I found my photo album, which I thought was lost, with a picture of me as a baby. Finally! The question is: do I have to freeze the baby photo, or can I make a Xerox copy and put the copy into the freezer? I now still have a picture of myself as a nine year old in the freezer.
6th March 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: Re: 30 gauge cables
Hello, It was I that posted about the single strand copper speaker wire. The two strands are sandwiched between two strips of adhesive tape with about 10mm between the parallel strands. They do sound great, but as always there's a downside to the upside-they can break very easily, and they are real fiddley when connecting to binding posts. If your speakers are in a high traffic area (children etc....) a bit of deep thinking may be required to ensure that in the event of a breakage the broken wire doesn't come into contact with it's neighbour, maybe even a small piece of soft foam between posts etc...
6th March 2006 From: Tom Marsden
Subject: Re: Cable length
Richard, my practice regarding interconnect/speaker cable lengths is to keep the low level signal carriers - i.e.. interconnects - as short as possible.
7th March 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: question photograph
Copies can work well, but you may want to try each to ascertain if there is a discernible difference.
7th March 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: question for Richard
Thanks for this really easy question....
There are some treatments in my room, but I have to say that they are mainly for my benefit e.g. on the computer screen. Some time ago Peter did some work in this area, but many of my patients
have rather different difficulties, though without being smug, many seem to improve.
What I am more interested in is whether my diverse interests inform each other. For example, is being open to the P.W.B. phenomenon part of a state of mind that is conducive to therapeutic change? This harks back
to my preoccupation with the 'age of wonder'. Scientists were not so narrow then. The greatest of novelists - George Eliot? - had deep interests in science, as did Wordsworth or Coleridge. Priestley and Davey were interested in poetry and politics. And if you examine closely, these fertile times gave us some enduring discoveries, without the damaging influence of science lessons....
And so it may be that my attempts to understand the action of the Red 'X' Pen is very helpful to my work elsewhere; trying to fathom the unfathomable. But also my patients have the advantage of a doctor, who is increasingly content with his home entertainment. Perhaps that rubs off too.
11th March 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: Gary Lee's Miracle belting of CD player from 2002 post
Hello All, I have been reading through old posts and was particularly impressed with Gary Lee's description of extensively treating an old CD player with Sol-Electret, Cream Foil and Messages. I want to do the same, but am unsure of how accessible the CD tray is on my Denon 2910 DVD player. I am not afraid of pulling things apart but was just wondering, Gary , if you can give any specific details on how to remove tray unit from player. I have treated the Denon internally in a basic fashion, but the tray unit looked fairly inaccessible. Also how do you undo the plugs on those ribbon cables inside? They look like they should just pull out, but there must be a little catch somewhere . Any suggestions gratefully accepted,
12th March 2006 From: Gary Lee
Subject: 30 gauge cable suggestion & treating CD player
Last things first. Michael, the CD tray was not disassembled or taken out of the unit. The disc tray was extended and everything that could be reached was treated, primarily with Cream Electret, although now I would recommend Quantum Cream, if available. The teeth on the disc tray were treated with Sol-Electret as recommended on the P.W.B. website if memory serves correctly. As also recommended, the laser lens was creamed. A caveat on that, however. The laser lens on my Arcam CD92 was creamed and the unit wouldn't work. So I would thoroughly wipe any excess off the Denon and be prepared to clean the lens, should the unit not play.
I would not recommend pulling any cables off in the interior, unless you are extremely experienced and comfortable working with, and possibly repairing, audio equipment. It should not be necessary to do those things for a significant improvement in sound. If Sol-Electret and a cream are applied extensively, along with Morphic messages and foils, the results should make you very happy.
I actually had a negative experience when I treated the Arcam so extensively. Somehow I may have been a bit too enthusiastic. The sound after treatment was very disappointing, and included a major problem with the balance of the channels being thrown off.
Eventually, everything was righted with the Arcam and recent posts may have finally given the explanation. Some other members noted a deterioration in sound after treatments were applied. The cure was to treat other things in the area, not remove the treatments. I can't recall exactly what other treatments were applied around the house after doing the CD player, but that must have been what fixed the problem with the Arcam.
As to making speaker cables from 30 gauge silver wire, I would refer you, Chris, to the tnt-audio site. If you will do a bit of research, there is a recipe for making packing tape interconnects with magnet wire. The same principle should apply to making speaker cables, with the added benefit of being able to treat the cables with P.W.B. products. I would recommend freezing the wire before making the cables. It should offer a significant benefit. Let me know if you can't find the recipe on at tnt. I may have a link somewhere.
You do have to be very careful with such thin wire, but I have been using 24 - 30 gauge wire for ic's and speaker wire for years and had no significant problems. I would allow some extra wire, because the wire will break eventually with the cables being taken off and put on. Extra wire obviously allows that situation to be corrected. Good luck. Let us know how they sound.
13th March 2006 From: Chris Porada
Subject: RE: 30 gauge cable suggestion & treating CD player
Tanks very much for the helpful information. I too am using 30 gauge home-brew IC's, and I know exactly which Greg Weaver packing tape magnet wire IC you are talking about. Those are not the ones I'm using, though; I found they picked up some EMI or something and didn't give me quite the sound I was looking for, so I have made a pair of "fine silver interconnects" from the Chris VenHaus website using the same 30 gauge silver wire I bought from Myron Toback in NY. This is the wire I was thinking of trying for the speaker cables. I'll let you know when I try it how it sounds.
14th March 2006: From. P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: User Manual continuation ...
Whilst our customers' ideas for using Rainbow Foil (to eventually be incorporated into a 'User Manual') are still being submitted, I would suggest that we now go on to the next product - Cream-Electret. If people have experiences of using Cream-Electret in areas not described in our general instructions it would be of help to others newly acquiring the Cream-Electret.
After Cream-Electret, I would then suggest people give their 'user' experiences with the various Morphic Message Foils. The Morphic Message Foils are ideal as people's first, relatively inexpensive, introduction into the remarkable effect of 'beneficial messages' and anyone who has received the Beginners Pack will already have samples of some of the six Morphic Message Foils.
Many of our old established customers are very familiar with all the Morphic Message Foils but if there are any P.W.B. customers who wish to take part in the user discussions regarding the Morphic Message Foils and would like free of charge samples of the "'x' Film" and "Safe Hole Foil" please request them.
14th March 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: Internal CD player treatment
Hello All, and thanks Gary, but once again my impatience got the better of me and I stripped down and treated my player yesterday morning. I only went as far as taking the pressed plate on top of disc drive unit, and applied sol elec. to rails that guide drawer. Morphic liquid applied by droplets on finger then wiped of with superwipe. Then every screw received sol elec. also extra messages on everything big enough. I seem to be reaching a plateau with SR foil, elecret cream and messages, as, although my system sounds heavenly, the incremental improvements are less wow than those original big leaps from pre to post P.W.B. Having said that I still have not touched my car yet, and in my spare room lies , untreated, 2 amplifiers, 6 speakers ,a small PA system ,and an electronic drum kit. Oh no, just realised how much more foiling and creaming I've still got to do!!!
PS: I know that P.W.B. only treats the perception of sound ,but I had an experience a day or so ago that made me wonder. I have posted a couple of times about how delicious my bass is now, and my favourite CD if I want a real body blow bass is World Reggae : PUTAMAYO World Music, PUT 221-2. Anyway, my desk and laptop (well treated) is right next to my left Floorstanding speaker. The particular track ,I have played many many times at the same volume, this time, after a treatment, I think putting 20 or so small quarter rounds ad lib around room, at a point in the song where an unaccompanied bass line dips really low, actually woke up my laptop screen, which had been in standby mode. I was surprised to see the screen spring to life in sync with the bass, and thought that the extra bass just jiggled the mouse enough to wake up the screen-except that it was only the perception of extra bass.............
14th March 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: User Manual continuation ...
I have had, and used, both the Beginners and the Intermediate packs. I remember using the Safe Hole foil and the Gold foil that you generously sent with my Red X pen order I can't remember using the 'x; film, so, I would like to take you up on your offer of a sample.
14th March 2006 From: William Kollins
Subject: Re: User Manual continuation ...
I'd like to take you up on your offer of free samples of 'x' film and Safe Hole foils and I would hopefully come up with something to contribute to the user manual regarding their use and performance. I had some of these foils a good while ago but used them up at the time and cannot now remember anything in particular about their effect on sound. I had placed them in the usual places; this time I will be more experimental. Thanks.
15th March 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: Super Quick Delivery
Hello All, and thanks May, some Sol-Electret must have oozed into the wheels and cogs of the postal systems, May posted my order on the 10th and it covered the 20,000 kms in 5 days. Excellent service!
Can I solder the smart metal straight on to the pins of the AC plugs, that plug into the socket?
15th March 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Both my CD player and pre-amp are, at present, each sitting on three small Sorbothane feet, on separate shelves within a bulky wooden cabinet. (This also has , through necessity, the main TV sitting on top of it.) I do believe that I can dab Cream on each of the feet and would probably expect an improvement in sound. However, has anyone carried out a treated oak-cone( a la Russ Andrews ) versus treated Sorbothane comparison and can anyone enlighten me as to what would be best?
Also, being in the process of using the Red 'x' Pen and crossing out loads of bar-codes( initially on CDs and then on books, magazines) a thought struck me. There are bar-codes on groceries and , yes they can be dealt with individually, but it's a moveable feast( no pun intended). Would there be a way to 'imprison' these , in a Beltian sense, within their containers i.e.. kitchen cupboards? Is there a cream or foil application that would do this, or do I still have to go the long way round?.
15th March 2006 From: Makridis Andreas
Subject: Rainbow Foil
Talking about the Rainbow Foil, I guess it was the stuff that initiated most of us in the weird world of Peter Belt, corrupting our skeptic minds for ever!
When I used the Rainbow Foil for the very first time, I perceived an increase of loudness in the sound, which became more dynamic and transparent, but at the same time, brighter too. That meant that in my system which was already bright (Pioneer Precision CD and amp, together with Mission 780se loudspeakers), the change was not welcome with every compact disc. I kept the foil though I felt there was some truth in Peter's research, I love experimenting and I wanted to see where the whole trip would come up to. (I still wonder!...)
I keep the same impressions till now. The Rainbow Foil is able to transform the ugly compressed sound of cheap portables, leading to a more dynamic and transparent experience, (especially when tried with a piece of Spiratube on the mains cable and one piece of Real Foil somewhere in the tray of the CD transport) when placed on the box just above the entrance of the mains cable, or in the tray alone. It can better the quality of sound and the picture of the TV, when stuck on the small plastic box that surrounds the central mains switch. And of course, it can be used as proposed by May.
There is an application totally neglected though, that I would like to point and remind: The foil can be used to revitalize the sound of old, worn LP's, especially of the classic rock productions of '60s and '70s. I have got nearly magical results with some of those records, where time and misuse have stolen some edge from the sound. On the other hand, which collector or proud owner would ruin the old image of the record with an ugly new aluminum foil that would tear the paper in case of unsticking? That is really a problem!
The Rainbow Foil is the initiator, the godfather in the weird Belt universe. It affects the sound, and is accepted by the ordinary brain, who can attribute its effect to some sort of interference with electromagnetism and the sound signals (my brain still retains that idea!)
So, my verdict stands as following:
BENEFITS: Enlivens the sound, can help to restore some energy to worn LP's, it is the perfect initiator to the P.W.B. universe, cheap enough to experiment, demonstrate and loose some!
OBJECTIONS: Sticking it on the hi-fi equipment itself, is not always beneficial. It is ugly as most foils and, unfortunately, is a perfect initiator to the P.W.B. universe!
15th March 2006 From: Andreas Makridis
Subject: Re: When P.W.B. make things bad!
I have had many experiences of sound getting bad after some P.W.B. treatment. Some times, that is temporary and everything comes in place after one day or two but some other times the tweak must be abandoned and turned over.
I am not talking about moving too much towards one direction (like placing too much cream on some equipment without wiping it off, or sticking a Real Foil on a warm sounding CD) I am talking about a real deterioration of the sound that can become muddy and recessed, same thing with the TV picture too.
It has happened to me mostly with the Sol-Electret and the application of Smart Metal, and some times even with Cream Electret. I believe that the foils, the pen and the other "solid" objects are more stable on their effect.
What mostly puzzled me, was when a certain screw inside the TV responded negatively with the Sol-Electret (muddy bass, muddy treble and some kind of lumpy projection of the presence harmonics), whether to another screw beside the first one, the result was of much benefit! Same with certain terminals in the circuits inside the washing machine and the vacuum cleaner!
Sometimes, another treatment seems to rebalance the sound, but I am not sure whether the negative effect is cured or just overshadowed by the new one.
Do inanimate objects have preferences? God forbid!
16th March 2006 From: Gary Lee
Subject: Bar codes, CD players, and silver wire
Michael, it sounds like you treated your CD/DVD player much like I did mine, although you were much more ambitious when it came to treating screws. Have you also tried the Blu Tack treatment on the clock? It is very effective, and as noted in some P.W.B. instructions somewhere, a drop of Sol-Electret can be added to the Blu Tack and kneaded into it. You can find the tweak at Audio Asylum if you do a search in the Tweaks Asylum. Try "Blu Tack tweak". If you can't find it, let me know. Maybe I have a copy of it somewhere. I also find there are certain treatments that give "one small step for an ear, one giant leap for an audio system", with apologies to Neil Armstrong. Not everything gives the same quantitative effect. This is just supposition, but couldn't that possibly be due to the fact that sound is improving and there comes a point where a maximum, or close to it, has been reached? Your note about the laptop starting is most interesting and May's response is eagerly awaited.
Chris, we get our silver wire from the same distributor. Great prices. I didn't find the packing wire ic's as effective either, maybe because I could never get past the aesthetics. I made a pair of the Chris Venhaus ic's, the ones that use the "barber pole" design, right? I used rope instead of Teflon tubing. It was easier to find and easy to work with. If you haven't made them, you might want to stick with the white Teflon tape, in view of Peter's notes on colors for cables.
My suggestion for the packing tape was primarily to protect the wire. What about using the Chris Ven Haus idea for speaker cables and running a silver wire straight down each side of an appropriate length of rope, then securing the wires with Teflon tape? It would give very good protection to the wire. The only thing vulnerable would be the end that went to the binding post. You might be able to split the rope at the end to give each wire even more protection. By doing that, you could use Sol-Electret down the entire length of the wire. The Teflon tape on the finished cable could be covered with Cream Electret or Quantum Cream for the entire length. In addition, you would be able to write Morphic messages on the rope, either before or after the application of the tape. As a final step, the cables could be popped into the freezer. Just a suggestion. I haven't tried this myself, but I may now that I've described it. This might be a way to overcome the fragility of fine wire speaker cables. My experience with fine wire has been so good, I don't ever intend to go back to fat wires.
Finally, let me know, Brian, if you find some way of not individually treating bar codes on food. Sometimes my unperishable groceries lie in sacks on the kitchen floor for days until I get around to dealing with the bar codes. Most are crossed out. When they are on cans with paper labels, I rip the bar code off and tear it up. That doesn't take much more time than crossing them out. In my Morphic world, the only good bar code is a dead one.
16th March 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Re: Questions
It is good to see you having a good grasp of the implications of all bar codes. There are two separate problems in the scenario you describe. One is the bar codes on such as food products and the other is cupboards - and not just kitchen cupboards.
The solution (although I do admit time consuming) is to make a line through all bar codes which enter the premises, because not all items, even food and kitchen items, are always stored in cupboards - at least in my untidy household they are not !
The second problem area I mention is cupboards. Any storage area, i.e.. cupboards, wardrobes etc. are areas which are, by their very nature, hidden areas - areas where you are unconsciously and anxiously scanning because you cannot 'see' what is hidden.
Our Inside Foil was designed to provide a reassuring pattern for all areas which are hidden from view, so a strip of Inside Foil attached to the inside of all hidden areas will give a considerable improvement in the sound, irrespective of what is inside those areas.
Spurred on by Brian's problem, I have just carried out a visual inspection of our kitchen and bathroom and surprised even myself. There are 14 separate kitchen cabinets and even though there is one fitted long section, that one section is subdivided into 9 separate sections. In the bathroom, in one single section housing water tanks and the airing cupboard, that section is subdivided into three separate sections and, in addition, the small mirrored bathroom cabinet is, itself, subdivided into three separate sections.
So, the Inside Foil is not only beneficial for hidden areas associated with the audio system but for all hidden areas in the building !
16th March 2006 From: Mark Kirby
Subject: RE: Questions
Regarding bar codes. By happenstance I removed a light switch cover and discovered bar codes on the switches. Sound in my listening room, the most thoroughly Belted room in my apartment, got a noticeable lift with the light switch bar-codes neutralized by my Red 'x' Pen.
It bears mentioning again that most CD's and DVD's are bar-coded near the center of the disc, on the blank area inside the encrypted data.
After upgrading RAM in my iMac - a bar-coded dimm thingy replacing a bar-coded dimm thingy - I dread thinking of bar-codes hidden in the works. They will surely be proliferating in the coming years, in every thing electric, screaming for attention just out of earshot.
16th March 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: Bar codes, CD players, and silver wire
From May's posted reply it looks like we'll all have to take the long way round with regard to bar-codes.
What worries me is that plans are now afoot to replace bar-codes with Radio Frequency ID tags. I draw yours and everybody's attention to the article on today's BBC web-site (the Technology page). Their worry is concerning viruses. Ours should be having lots of RF grunge entering the household. I expect that Peter is aware of this and there may be a Belt treatment available.
Also, Barry Fox, writing in Hi-Fi News, expressed great concern regarding future plans to piggy-back all sorts of signals onto the electricity mains . Apparently, no-one has given much thought to it's effect on audio signals , either that or they are keeping it quiet!
18th March 2006 From: Kevin Kehoe
Subject: Bar codes and P.W.B. Tips
I must admit bar codes are the things I find most difficult to keep in check. I will have a bar code splurge ever month or so on the products in our cupboards and shelves, but the items I never fail to treat at the point of entry with the Red 'X' Pen are CD's, books and glossy magazines. I also never fail to treat all household cleaners. I have a 'feeling' that those items are more likely to be intrusive than say, a packet of cornflakes. This probably stems from reading May's account of the coffee table incident where Peter got his first insights into the true nature of what shapes our perception of sound. I now view all cleaners and polish with suspicion. Selecting objects at random, or on a 'hunch' for treatment is probably not the right attitude how many of us have had sound leaps from the treatment of the most innocent of objects. Sometimes I do wish Peter would come up with some sort of 'Morphic Resonance Gun' that could be pointed at a bag of shopping and the lot would be instantly treated. I was about to say that you sometimes have to draw a line somewhere and get on with listening but that would be an even worse unintentional pun than yours.
Tips for the P.W.B. Files:
I always attach two Silver Rainbow Foils to a CD label. One over the 'Compact Disc' logo if there is one, otherwise over any prominent area of print. The other goes on some random clear area. Although I have never experienced the problem, if anyone is worried about the Foil causing the disc to run out of balance, the second Foil could be used as a counterbalance to the first at the same time helping it to sound better.
I have a P.W.B. goodie box, which I see as very similar to a Chief's essential ingredient larder or the first aid box in car or home. Items I never run out of are; Silver Rainbow foil, P.W.B. Cream Electret, Red 'X' Pen and Gold Message Foil. This can then be expanded upon with items such as Smart Metal and various Message Foils etc.. as funds become available. I always retain a little of each product for emergencies such as the purchase of new electrical products in our case recently, a new DVD Recorder.
Regards to All
18th March 2006 From: Chris Porada
Subject: RE: rainbow foil on SACDs
I am wondering if anyone has found the optimal position for placing the rainbow foil on SACDs. I know on standard CDs, it should go over the Compact disc logo. On the SACD, should it go over the SACD logo, over the DSD logo, over the compact disc logo, or over the Sony logo, or none of the above and some other spot that works best? I've been putting it over the SACD logo, since I only listen to the SACD layer, but perhaps I'm missing something...
18th March 2006 From: Geoff Kait
Subject: Re: Bar codes and P.W.B. Tips
As someone mentioned, the search for bar codes is seemingly endless: incoming envelopes and packages, supplies from the store, appliances, pages of bank statements, bills and invoices, not to mention cheque books, packs of stamps.
Anyone else use a razor/scissors to cut the offending bar codes from labels on items, or a Dremel tool to eradicate the little devils on metal objects?
And speaking of postage stamps: stamps and coins are another possible line of attack, methinks, having quite strong and well-established Morphic fields, esp. stamps with flags.
19th March 2006 From: Gary Lee
Subject: Gold Message Foil
This is aimed mainly at Kevin, but anyone can chime in, of course.
Kevin, why is the Gold Message Foil one of your standbys? I have some but haven't used it as much as other things. I tend to write on things directly with the Red X Pen, largely due to a streak of indolence that is long and wide. What advantages have you noticed with the Gold Foil and how do you use it? I'm willing to learn.
21st March 2006 From: Kevin Kehoe
Subject: Gold Message Foil
Apart from the 'Message Foil' series of Belt products, one of the first significant sound lifts I experienced came about through the use of the 'X' Pen on Gold Message Foil which I attached to my turntable many years back. Normally, I too use the 'X' Pen directly on to the object (mainly as a bar code neutraliser). I have never for instance, used Gold Foil on CD's although thinking about it, it might be a useful exercise to try it on one of those freebie discs given away with newspapers, up against an untreated one - if a suitable short message could be devised. Perhaps others have tried this before? The only Foil I use on CD's is Rainbow Foil as described previously. I use the Gold Foil to treat household electrical equipment including the hi-fi, hand controls, TV, telephones, powered kitchen tools in fact anything that is big enough to apply a message strip. We have just purchased a new CD player for the car so that will get a couple of messages along the lines of 'Blaupunkt (followed by the model number) produces superb sound' Not all of those messages have produced a discernible sound lift on every application but, there is a cumulative effect to be had similar to that from the use of Rainbow Foil and Cream Electret. A perhaps less honourable reason for keeping a bit of this Foil in reserve is because of the more adventurous daredevils amongst the forum posting ideas for it's use I then have some at hand to try the tip suggested! 'That moment of inspiration' could be the reason I keep a little of most Belt products set aside. Unfortunately, I was never blessed with the ability to make leaps of inspiration regarding P.W.B. products hence the high regard I have for those who do.
22nd March 2006 From: Gary Lee
Subject: Foiled again - Gold, that is
Thanks, Kevin. It seems like we have used the Gold Foil in a similar manner, but you make a good point about its cumulative effect. I may need to apply it to some more objects around the house. Having just gotten some remotes for a new satellite dish, that may be the place to start.
And I too have never had the Muse of Morphic Messages whisper in my ear. I am totally dependent on the brilliance of others in that area.
Thanks again for the clarification.
22nd March 2006 From: Chris Porada
Subject: RE: safe hole and 'x' Film
I received my samples of safe hole foil and 'x' Film and am wondering if anyone can make some suggestions as to the most efficacious places to try these two first.
Thanks in advance for any tips
22nd March 2006 From: Makridis Andreas
Subject: Re: safe hole and 'x' Film
Try the safe hole on the window covering the central mains switch!
22nd March 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: safe hole and 'x' Film
That's a great idea. I have saved a couple of bits of both the X - foil and the safe- hole foil so that I can do the car, but I think that your idea is better. Now, if only I can find my way over all those essential kept items ( junk) cluttering up the garage I'll be able to do that.
23rd March 2006 From: Gary Lee
Subject: Translation needed, please
We Yanks use slightly different electrical technology. So while it sounds like a great idea to try the Safe Hole Foil as noted, I'm not sure where to put it.
Switch is understood. But there is no window near any switches in my place. Mains means power cord in the U.S., right?
Anyone speak both Eurectrical and Americtrical?
23rd March 2006 From: Makridis Andreas
Subject: Re: Translation needed, please
Sorry about my English, friend.
Is your mains switch exposed, or is it in a box somehow? Doesn't that "box" have a "door" that you have to open in order to reach the switch? I meant to stick the foil just there - otherwise, you may just ignore the proposition!
23rd March 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re:- Translation needed, please - Andreas,
Firstly. sorry not to use your christian name in my reply to you.
I took what you said to mean the mains fuse-box. Mine uses circuit- breakers and the front panel has a clear plastic window so that you can see which fuse has tripped. You then lift the panel to get access to the tripped one.
I used a Safe-Hole foil on the Combi-boiler , which sits in the cupboard under the stairs.
24th March 2006 From: Alain Derrida
Subject: Re: question photograph
You can make a Xerox copy. I don't have my original baby photos (only a color copy). I then made a (rather dark) b&w xerox copy, which worked well. HOWEVER!... I had multiple copies of both my baby self and current self, and I listened to different xerox copies, and found that although I could not really tell one copy apart from the other visually, they each exhibited different qualities of sound! So I think the suggestion you experiment with different copies is a valid one. Although I didn't do this, it's helpful to keep in mind that you can foil, and "red x" mark the ziploc bag (and whatever else) - before- storing the photos.
24th March 2006 From: Gary Lee
Subject: Electrical Translation complete.
Andreas, your English was excellent. There are just different names for things in various countries. In the U.S. what you refer to used to be called the "fuse box". Now that circuit breakers are used, I can't remember what it's called. The breaker box, I think. It is not common to have a clear outer door on it. Mine is metal. But thanks to you and Brian, I am quite sure I have the idea and will try it.
If I understand correctly, the Safe Hole Foil is put on the inside of the door, so it will be inside when the door is closed.
This should be interesting. Thanks.
24th March 2006 From: Gary Lee
Subject: C'est manifique, Andreas!
Well, nothing was lost in the translation when the Safe Hole Foil and the Inside Foil was put on door of the breaker box or mains switch box or whatever it's called. I couldn't believe the change in the sound of my main system. My breaker box is at one end of my home and the living room at the other. Nevertheless, the sound improved noticeably when the foils were applied. It really was amazing. It is one of the best boosts in a while. I noticed some difference earlier this week when a number of things in the living room were treated with Quantum Cream. That was done by just applying it to a small area on each, as May suggested. But the foils were even more dramatic. Undoubtedly they acted with the Cream treatment to improve the sound. It's funny how different treatments will affect a system.
Thank you, Andreas and Brian, for that tip. I recommend others try it and report on what is heard.
24th March 2006 From: Makridis Andreas
Subject: Re: C'est manifique, Andreas!
Thanks for your comments, friend
A nice way to demonstrate the bliss of the Safe Hole Foil to the "profane" (!), is to apply it the same way on the door of the breaker box, either inside or outside, and then call them to watch its effect on the TV picture, where all the images become more 3-dimentional and the persons (footballers!) more individualised. Some minutes later, the difference should be obvious.
Fortunately or not, the common man, is more TV-picture orientated than sound-orientated.
24th March 2006 From: Makridis Andreas
Subject: Re: Translation needed, please - Brian
Plastic window in front of the mains fuse-box! I hope it is worth the effort!
27th March 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: Next Step
Hello All, I wonder if the P.W.B.'ers out there could give me an idea of which of the foils to try, after the SR foil, El. cream Sol elec. Red pen. I have just tried Smart Metal, a small amount on terminals of tweeters, a couple of component plugs (Right on the tip of pins) But the biggest boost was from pulling control panel of my washing machine off and smart metalling about 10 - 12 of the spade plugs, including the mains wires. Am madly saving for the Quantum Clip, but would like to hear what a different foil may sound like.
2nd April 2006 From: Gary Lee
Subject: Major P.W.B. treatment of speakers
An audio friend and member of this forum, Bill Hunt, had suggested upgrading the crossovers of my floorstanding Clements 206di speakers. Exploring the possibility revealed the difficulty of such a project and the thought was reluctantly abandoned. But since the speakers were already partially apart, it seemed like a good idea to go ahead and treat the speakers as fully as possible. A partial treatment had been made about a year or so ago with excellent results, but the crossovers had not been done at that time. My curiosity got the better of me and the project was begun. Isn't it good we don't know ahead of time how long it can take to treat some things? Otherwise, some of us would be too lazy to attempt it and really lose out.
Here are the details of P.W.B. treatments applied (as completely as memory will allow):
- Cream Electret applied to complete surface of all four 6 1/2" driver cones and surrounds (correct term?) [a most delicate task] - Cream Electret applied to large metal magnet casing on back of all large drivers - approx. half dozen foil strips of various types applied to all six drivers, including tweeters - Quantum Cream applied to all strips of foil - Quantum Cream applied to all caps, resistors, and crossover components within access - same half dozen foils as above attached to various parts of crossover (6 was the total number of foils applied to each crossover) - Quantum Cream applied to all crossover foils - Sol-Electret applied to all solder points, exposed wires, and other exposed metal on crossover that were within reach - Sol-Electret applied to all connector points on drivers and the connectors on driver crossover connector wires - Quantum Cream applied to all outer wire coverings, including driver/crossover wire & crossover/binding-post wire - same foils as above applied to horizontal plane of cabinet bracing, plus one strip of Inside Foil - several Morphic messages written on Gold Message Foil applied to same cabinet bracing - Quantum Cream applied to all foils, including Gold Message Foils - Sol-Electret applied to all screw threads when drivers were screwed back into place - several foils applied to internal cabinet side of plastic binding post plate - Quantum Cream applied to foils on binding post plate above, plus Q Cream applied to large area on binding post plate - all drivers, wires, crossover components, screws, cabinets and numerous surfaces & parts of drivers, components, etc.. Clipped w/Quantum Clip - the internal speaker padding was removed (with some unwarranted trepidation as it turned out)
In addition to the above applications, any place a Cream or Sol-Electret was applied, the excess was wiped off with a Super Wipe. Whenever a Cream was applied, the area was tapped with the lid of the Cream jar as per Peter's instructions (right?). Morphic messages were written with the Red X Pen and tapped with the top of the pen.
No attempt was made to cream the domes of the tweeters. There was too great a risk of damaging them, since the cream must be applied by hand and the pressure needed to apply any cream seemed likely to cause harm. Any suggestions as to how the tweeters can be creamed will be seriously considered. The outer metal mounting ring of the tweeters had previously been creamed, and so they were not creamed again.
The result was like a speaker upgrade. Remarkable. The entire audio spectrum was revealed in greater detail. The bass increase was nothing short of amazing. The Clements are rated at 38Hz. That seems far too high now. Bass violins are clearly heard and not much seems to be missing. The soundstage was widened 6-12 inches (16-31 cm) on each side, but the increase in depth was even greater. The back wall of my living room appears to be removed and now performers are playing out in the carport area. Amazing.
There is no feeling of deprivation that crossover parts could not be upgraded, but imagine if they could have been. That would have been a real double whammy, especially since they could have been frozen beforehand and installed using the Smart Metal.
I hope this encourages some others to be a bit bolder and take apart their speakers. The whole process took me about 6 hours. Naturally, when I started I figured it might take an hour or two. Glad I didn't know ahead of time. At one point I looked around at the empty cabinets and realized if I had thought of the work before the project was attempted, I might not have tried it. But it certainly helps remove some of the mystery about high end gear. After all, speakers are speakers. Presumably, only the parts and workmanship are better with higher quality equipment. If you take apart a cheap pair of speakers, why not a fancy pair?
A side note to Michael: I'm not sure what foils to recommend. Everyone seems to have their favorites. The Future Foil has been a good one for me. There are foils I haven't tried but would like to.
So here's a question for May: Have you considered offering various sample packs of foils, an idea similar to the Beginner and Intermediate Packs? That way users could know which foils they might wish to purchase in a larger quantity. You are always most generous in sending samples of new foils, but I would be quite willing to purchase slightly larger lengths that were put together in a group. Just a thought. Would anyone else find this idea interesting?
And Michael, you are right about your goal. The Quantum Clip is definitely the thing to get. It is worth every penny. Just consider it another piece of audio gear. In the end it is quite cost effective. Theoretically, you could clip the whole world. Think of the improvement in sound.
3rd April 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: Blood on the speakers!
Hello All, thanks for the ideas Gary, although I may postpone buying any foils until I have the money saved for Q Clip. (Damn those bills!, who needs gas and electricity anyway!) I, too, pulled apart my floorstanders (VAF DC7) to treat crossovers on the weekend. Smart Metal on 3 or 4 easy to get to joints, SR Foil on Caps, coils and body of housing, cream over that, and Sol El. on solder joints. Somehow managed to cut my finger with a utility knife, so rather than waste that precious fluid that I thought would surely hold my personal resonance, I liberally smeared my bloody finger inside speaker boxes and even put a drop on the top of each cabinet! Didn't seem to do any harm, sound became fuller and closer than before, although I always seem to do more than one P.W.B. related activity at a time, so am not quite sure what is doing what! About your creaming of tweeter cones, Gary, I say, just do it! I have fabric cones and big hands, but with a light touch the job was easy. I could feel the cone moving under my finger, and just reduced my finger pressure accordingly. Good luck!
3rd April 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Re: Major P.W.B. treatment of speakers.
Just picking up on some of Gary's observations regarding 'P.W.B. treating' his speakers.
Many times I have emphasised the fact that our customers, after carrying out some treatments to their audio equipment, are then many years ahead of the actual manufacturers who produced that equipment. This is now the fact with Gary and his (treated) speakers. What he describes as 'like a speaker upgrade' !! For the people who have seen the recordings of the talks I gave, they will be aware of how I describe Peter's reaction after making his early (unconventional) discoveries as him "being devastated". You have to imagine Peter, after specialising in the speaker and headphone end of the audio chain for 30 years, right up to State of the Art low mass diaphragm electrostatic and orthodynamic drive units, suddenly becoming aware that he was able to make greater improvements in the sound than he had ever achieved - by using quite unconventional methods. This was indeed 'devastating' for Peter. So, yes Gary, speakers are speakers and ANY speaker, whoever manufactured it or however much it cost can be very effectively treated. Also, as I have explained quite a few times, 25 years ago Peter had the choice of going down the traditional path of applying his discoveries solely to his own range of speakers and headphones or making his discoveries available to anyone, anywhere in the world, to enable them to treat their own equipment. He chose to do the latter and Gary's pleasure in doing such treatments is rewarding. One of the things which also caused Peter to be 'devastated' was his realisation that simple and relatively inexpensive speaker systems were already performing extremely well (far better than anyone in audio has realised) and were presenting information into the room but information which we (human beings) were not perceiving correctly. So, Gary, the improvements you are now hearing have been there, in your room, all the time !! But, and it is a big BUT, the benefits of Peter's treatments have not spread as quickly or as widely as one would have expected, or as we would have wished - seeing as how everyone who purchases audio equipment (or writes about it) is supposed to be interested in attaining the best sound possible.
Having just returned from a Spring break, I have been catching up with the Chat group postings and how many of you have been describing of the improvements you have been achieving in your sound. I would like to repeat something else I keep saying.
When you describe how the sound improves, this means that you are hearing additional information, but it also means that the additional information you are now hearing has been there in the room, already presented into the room by your equipment. The additional information you can now hear has been there - available - all the time !!
The only way that conventional audio theory will allow the concept that there is information in the room which you might not be able to hear is under the heading 'room acoustics'. But, treating your environment and/or equipment with such things as Foils or Cream cannot possibly have any effect on 'room acoustics', so that means that there is 'something else going on which conventional audio theory is not addressing' - which, logically, means that there is 'something else going' which the audio industry is not addressing !! The additional information you can hear after 'P.W.B. treatments' allows you to perceive the gain in height, the gain in width, the gain in depth, the 'sound appearing more in the air', the separation of performers, greater soundstage - exactly as Gary describes in his latest posting "The soundstage was widened on each side, but the increase in depth was even greater. The back wall of my living room appears to be removed and now the performers are playing out in the carport area. Amazing."
I will give your suggestion of a 'Foil Selection/Evaluation Pack' some thought Gary and see how it could be done.
4th April 2006 From: Gary Lee
Subject: Some thoughts on May's post
I often think of the frustration May and Peter must feel in dealing with the fantastic discoveries made by P.W.B. and the lack of recognition or appreciation for them. The line from Kipling's famous poem comes to mind: You're a better man than I, Gunga Din. Maybe others in this group have the wherewithal to keep going when your work is mocked and even reviled, but I have serious doubts about myself regarding that.
In this day and age of greed and selfishness, which in the U.S. Seems to have become the norm, the thought of P.W.B. deciding to share these amazing discoveries with the world, rather than keeping them as proprietary processes, is almost staggering. Imagine if Peter had simply applied these treatments to "Belt speakers" or audio equipment. He could easily have chosen to do such a thing. It would have been neither illegal, immoral, nor unethical. But it wouldn't have benefited humankind as a whole in the same way. P.W.B. has opened up a whole area of discussion and exploration that I am convinced will have significant effects beyond the area of audio some day.
It is wonderful to hear that our enjoyment of P.W.B. products is gratifying to the Belts. Many's the time I have marvelled at the improvement in the sound after treatments have been applied, and I try not to forget it when subsequent listening sessions are engaged in. This last "bout of Belting" has left me so impressed that each time the system is used, I can't help but think of the blessing of P.W.B. products.
And just for the record, May, I am aware that it is I who does the changing when treatments are applied. You have educated me well. But it is a bit more convenient to use the conventional approach and terminology of the audio world when referring to changes perceived. My guess from the conversations around here is that others share that. So I hope you will forgive our "erroneous" descriptions.
I am going to presume to speak for many others who haunt this section of cyberspace and voice my enormous appreciation for the selflessness shown by the Belts. Where would my audio world be without P.W.B.? Much the poorer and the thought is unpleasant in the extreme to contemplate.
God (or whatever Supreme Force you are comfortable with) bless Peter and May - forever!
4th April 2006 From: Makridis Andreas
Subject: Internal speaker padding
Among the other treatments he gave to his speakers, Gary mentions removing the internal speaker padding, as May suggests.
I haven't done so, as this stuff in my Mission speakers is glued to the box, but I used another of May's suggestions - applying a safety-pin, that I had previously creamed and frozen. That made the sound more bright and dynamic.
If the stuff used for smoothing the sound waves inside the box, (fibreglass etc..) is thought ultimately detrimental, I thought that some kind of treatment should be given to the material that is used in the absorber over the kitchen and as filter in the vacuum cleaner. It seems to be of the same material (or is it just the way that the fibre is "knitted" that counts? And what about the glass fibre hi-tech loudspeaker cones?)
Ultimately, we know that we can use a Brown Ties assembly for the purpose, but experimenting the way described could still be very rewarding.
12th April 2006 From: Brian Hannen
I got some magnetic strips at my local hobby shop but I now understand that they are not the right thing to get. Can anyone in the UK recommend a supplier and let me know what size and strength of magnet to get, please?
13th April 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Re: Magnets.
The small, round solid magnets should have been available at your local Hobby shop. These are the small disc magnets which are fitted behind such things as fridge magnets.
You can get a packet of 50 small disc (14mm in diameter) magnets for under £2.50 (two UK pounds 50 p).
When applying the Smart Metal to the magnets, the Smart Metal does not have to adhere to the surface of the magnets permanently. Applying the Smart Metal to the surface of the magnet with the soldering iron transfers the beneficial effect of the Morphic messages which were induced into the Smart Metal into the magnet. The strength of the magnetic material is irrelevant so long as the magnet can attach itself to any steel, iron object. The 'treated' magnets become 'a device' and are ideal for attaching to the rear of such things as central heating radiators. In addition, after using the Smart Metal on the magnet, you can apply a small amount of Cream-Electret to the face of the magnet.
14th April 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Some further information regarding the small magnetic discs.
Using Google, search for HobbyCraft (in the UK) and on HobbyCraft site click on Store Finder. You will get a map showing the location of all the HobbyCraft stores in the UK and if you click on any one of the cities, you will get the address and telephone number and location of that particular store. The HobbyCraft stores should have the packets containing smaller amounts of the disc magnets (i.e.. 20 per pack or 50 per pack).
Or, alternatively, you can go direct to a supplier of the small ceramic disc magnets. :-
Abel Magnets Ltd,
42, West Don Street,
Sheffield S6 3BH,
Tel 0114 249 5949 - email@example.com or go direct to the ceramic disc magnet page.
Abel Magnets Ltd sell Ceramic Magnetic Discs 14mm diameter in packs of 100 @ £6.49 per pack (described as suitable for Craft). They also sell slightly larger diameter size disc magnets.
14th April 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: Magnets
Thanks very much. My order is with Abel now.
19th April 2006 From Michael Parin.
Subject: New Quantum Clip Apprentice!!!
Hello All, thanks May, my order arrived yesterday (Tuesday) WOW !!!
Included in this order of my very own Quantum Clip (who's a lucky boy then?) is a very generous sample of the equally amazing Morphic Green Cream. Even though my head is filled with gunk from a nasty head cold, I could hear the difference straight away. Have only experimented in a brief way after picking up the order from post office-Green cream on cases of amp and DVD player, speaker cabinets and cones and a dab on all associated cables, then the same clipped-
WOW! more clarity and a definite jump in perceived volume. I placed a strip of the QC film, Greened then Clipped a copy of a copy of Joe Jackson' Jumpin Jive. This CD, even with SR Foil, El. Cream, Morphic Liquid and Red X Pen messages, double frozen, although better than the original, still sounded flat and away in the background. After above Q treatment the bugger literally jumped out of the speakers as if I was at a private Joe Jackson concert-It now sounds more like an SACD version of said album!
As an aside, I have just successfully frozen (x2) my Aus $150 80 watt integrated amp-It's branded by a local equivalent of Radio Shack and of Chinese origin and previous to it's trip to Siberia, had sounded gutsy but a bit bright and sharp. After defrosting, it had smoothed out quite a bit and now sounds almost as mellow as my Marantz 50 watt which cost almost 5 times the price! My next project will be to fully Q treat (inc. smart metal, replace internal wiring with 30 gauge single strand) a pair of small bookshelf speakers then freeze x2 the lo, cabinets and all and see where that takes me soundwise!
Back to the Clip and green cream, Can I Green cream the clip and tweezers?
Will refreezing clipped and creamed items provide a lift over just creaming and clipping?
thanks in advance for any advice, and many, many, thanks to the team at P.W.B. central for your life's work which is nothing short of breathtaking!
19th April 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: New Quantum Clip apprentice
So pleased you are having such fun already - and you have only just received the Quantum Clip !!
Please be advised however. Do not do anything or apply anything to the Quantum Clip device or the associated tweezers without specific instructions from us to do so.
19th April 2006 From: Heiko Wingender
Subject: New Quantum Clip Apprentice
Michael, thanks for sharing your experiences.
As a happy clip owner you did express my very same questions. Reading about "upgrades" of the clip with miscellaneous creams I do wonder whether my recently acquired clip could benefit from it. Presumably it depends on the up-to-dateness of the clip.
May, I am pondering also to order the Morphic Green Cream and would appreciate any suggestions. I do also wonder if the Green Creams supplied with different foils is exactly the same or a derivative of the Morphic Green Cream.
19th April 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: New Quantum Clip owners.
Heiko and Michael,
Whenever we develop an upgrade for the Quantum Clip device, we supply it so all Quantum Clip owners. If you purchase a Quantum Clip after that upgrade, you receive an already fully upgraded Quantum Clip.
The Green Creams supplied with different foils are NOT exactly the same as the Morphic Green Cream. The Morphic Green Cream is a very special cream.
20th April 2006 From: Graham Mountford
Subject: Treatment of Clip
As you know I have had the Clip for a number of years now and have treated it with the Cream Electret and the Green Cream. I also have a foil attached to both the Clip and the Tweezers but for the life of me I can't remember which foil it is. I think it may be the Inverting foil (grey with black lines creating equal little sections). I hope that this is not detrimental to the performance of the Clip.
Whilst on the subject of foils can I make a suggestion regarding the web site. I would find it most useful if there were a page devoted to photos of the various foils as it becomes difficult to remember which is which particularly if like me people don't save any for recognition purposes.
I also have not received the e-mail that Michael must have sent to you about treating the clip.
21st April 2006 From: Gary Lee
Subject: Hear, hear!
Or is that "here, here"? I can't remember, which brings me to the purpose of this post: that's not the only thing I can't remember. In support of Graham, I also request some sort of description or photos of the various foils. I know it would be extra work, but maybe we could all pitch in and help. Perhaps there could be a web page where we could note descriptions of the foils we can recall and, thus, use as a reference.
As a postscript, I still marvel at the superb sound coming from my treated speakers. A new set of custom speakers is due to arrive in a few weeks and now they have a formidable obstacle to overcome. Beating the sound of my current speakers will make them prove their worth. Otherwise, it's back to their maker and a refund for me because I would not feel deprived listening to my "new" Belted speakers.
24th April 2006 From: Arkie Martherus
Subject: White Spiratube > O.K.
This weekend I had a visit from a fellow audio mate.
He was very in praise of my audio system. He didn't understand how it could sound so three-dimensional, despite the bad positioning of our furniture. After a while we placed pieces of wood underneath the spikes of my turntable and CD-player. That made the sound more "full". Then I creamed those pieces of wood with Cream Electret. Instantly, both the CD-player and the record player sounded better: a wider stereo image, the treble became purer (less distorted), voices became more realistic.
Finally we placed White Spiratube around the speaker leads. This made the sound even more "free", instruments better recognizable, the treble cleared up even more. Of course we tried to listen without the White Spiratube. We were rewarded with flatness dullness, instruments seemed hidden and the stereo image shrunk. Quickly we re-installed the White Spiratube.
The past months I have been already busy placing the Spiratube over gas pipes, water pipes and in the electricity closet (?); as you have to know, I am an environment man. The Hi-Fi system is the last in row to be treated.
25th April 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: White Spiratube > O.K.
Try Spiratube round the framework underneath the seats in your car and while you are at it use Silver rainbow foils in discrete places. Also, I have used Cream on all interior surfaces in the car and have put a drop of Sol-Electret in the engine oil. When I get my Morphic Liquid I will do all the glass in the car, too. To date my car system has never sounded better. Some of the others may have other ideas for the car.
26th April 2006 From: Arkie Martherus
Subject: Re: White Spiratube > O.K.
That's an excellent idea, Brian. I already treated the front window and car radio with SR Foils and aligned all screws, and crossed some barcodes, but that's all, as I really do not use the car very often. But! I imagine that treating your car will also improve the sound in your house...
27th April 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: Re: White Spiratube > O.K.
I found a spare piece of large Spiratube so I fixed it to the underside of the passenger seat. While I was scrabbling around down there I noticed the wires connecting the CD changer to the main display. There was only a foot or so exposed and the connection was terminated in phono plugs. I applied Sol-Electret to the connections, plus a bit of SR foil to the rear of the auto-changer. Also , I creamed the cables. Small Spiratube to be added when I get more
The result? Well, in the car, I experienced a lift in sound. The bass was much deeper and the treble sweeter. Goldfrapp's 'Black Cherry' was more of a joy to listen to. I don't know what effect it has had indoors yet.
This weekend I will mostly be doing the Magnet and Smart Metal thing. Watch this space.
1st May 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: Clip go the shears, boys! Clip, Clip, Clip
Hello All, I've had my Q Clip and sample of Morphic Green Cream for about 2 weeks now, and although initially impressed with the sound lift after applying a smidge of green cream and clipping a few CD's and outside of amp, DVD player, speaker boxes etc., I was starting to question the Clips power. This was after much more extensive clipping of CD's, books, Laptop, washing machine, even a few dozen kitchen tiles-Small improvements were noted-but more like the of application of SR foil or Electret Cream, not the Rock your World changes that others have written about.
That, dear readers, was all about to change!
Yesterday, I sat speechless on my couch, tears in my eyes, as a hurricane of sound waves poured from my speakers.
What had I done ? - Taken my drivers out and applied Quantum Cream to all existing Foils and Morphic Messages, applied a smidge (less actually, about half a smidge!) of Morphic Green Cream to internal wiring, magnets, back of cones, voice coils, and the remaining foam padding, then clipped all the above, including self tapping driver screws.
I started with a Jimmy Smith funky Hammond organ tune at a fairly low volume, and I had to bolt out of my seat to TURN THE BUGGER DOWN!!!- I thought the paint might peel off the walls!
Next up was a Ben Harper DVD -live rehearsal track with the Blind Boys of Alabama-Ben is singing sweetly, and very gently finger picking an acoustic guitar, and I have never, ever felt my chest cavity resonate to a gently played acoustic guitar! Pure Heaven!!!
What was just as astonishing, usually with DVD's you have to turn them up at least 2 or 3 notches to get the same grunt as a CD, but here I was turning it down, and being blown away by the mass of information still presented to me.
This amazing experience has made me realise that as May has stated, you treat 7 things - nothing, treat the 8th and BOOM, we have Lift Off.
I just wanted to express my deepest thanks to May, Peter and co for their amazing work will post again when I've sorted out this computer
2nd May 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
We are working on one of your requests - for photographs of the various Foils to be included on our Home Page so that you can better identify the Foils you have (and are) using. However, if any of you have suitable photographs showing places where you have applied the different Foils (or other devices) which will be of help to other P.W.B. users, could you send them to us at the E-mail address below
2nd May 2006 From: Tom Hoffman
Subject: RE: Photographs
I have a digital camera and I'm willing to photograph all the foils that I have. I don't want to duplicate others work. Let me know what you want me to do.
Just tried to photograph some of the foils and they are very hard to do. I have a professional photographer who I'm going to call to see if I can work out some type of barter system.
Tom Hoffman, Advanced Audio
2nd May 2006 Tom Hoffman
Subject: RE: Photographs
The professional photographer just finished shooting all the P.W.B. products that I have. He is going to take them back to his shop and rework them. They came out great. Great detail to show the differences in the rainbow type of foils. I will get it to you ASAP.
3rd May 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: 'Ave a banana!
I was not at work today so caught up with treating magnets with Smart Metal. I bought 100 from Abel and thought that I would have plenty. Wrong!! Every cupboard catch in the kitchen and on the fitted wardrobes takes magnets. By the time that I'd finished that , plus doing all the radiators , fridges and other white goods I didn't have many left. I had treated the garage doors (6, one in each corner, plus one on each runner) and also the dexion racking. Get a car in there? You must be joking.
A tip, if you have lighting strips under the kitchen cabinets don't forget to put magnets on the casings .
I have some treated safety pins that I thought I'd try with Smart Metal. They aren't official P.W.B. pins but I thought that I'd try to see if these had any effect and , if so, I'd buy the proper ones later. Problem == How do you get them to stay still, without the use of a vice? Answer == A banana. Lay it on it's side and push the pins in so that they don't shoogle around while you apply the Smart Metal to the end of the pin. Perfect. It didn't stop me from burning myself once or twice, but I put that down to never having used a soldering iron before. What a confession, and at my age, too !
Anyway, by the time that I'd done all this , plus gotten round to putting my photos in the freezer, it was time to go to get the barnet chopped. By the time that I got back the dreaded telly was on. Oh well, there's always tomorrow.
I had been over to Big Rob's the day before so that he could treat my iron with his, prior to today's activity. He is still keen to 'have a session' with some of my goodies and that is scheduled for later in the month, when his mate is available. At least he has an open mind, which is more than can be said of the other members of the Audio Forum that he contributes to. I'm afraid to say that it is the same old story! So much so that the Moderator has practically banned any mention of P.W.B. To his credit, Rob bit back and said that he has had good results with his modest trials and intends going on 'with and open mind' Good for him.
We are now into day 2 and I settle down to listen. I have put the Brown Safety Pin under my listening seat. I've got to say that I was a bit underwhelmed. The sound isn't quite right. It's not what I expected and sounds 'off'. I know, I'll treat an additional item and , while I'm at it, I'll do the car. I creamed and foiled Chris's make-up mirror and put magnets in the car, one on the bodywork, one under the driving seat and one on the brake pedal. Also, I put a safety pin through the seat's upholstery. I had found a small piece of Spiratube, so I also attached that to the CD auto-changer cable. A thought-- What price P.W.B. Morphic Air for the tyres? I say that in jest , but I wouldn't put it past him!
(As an aside, I find that I make a mental note of untreated items and keep them back as an insurance policy, in case the sound goes 'off'. Does anyone else do that? )
Back into the house for a listen. Aha, that's much better, a definite improvement on what went before. Now, what's next? Ah, yes, the Safety Pins. I remembered that you should turn back the corners of curtains with these and seemed to recall that you can pin one to the carpet. I did the curtains in the living room, front and back, and fiddled about with getting on attached to the carpet. It will be OK for you shag-pile and loop-pile owners but I didn't half struggle with our short, dense piled carpet. I got there in the end, but had to put it somewhere that Chris wouldn't spot. She thinks that I'm mad enough already, so it's best not to give her any more ammunition !
I sat back down to listen and was immediately gob-smacked! What sound!!! What an improvement!! The soundstage was even more wide and deep but it was in what I call 'micro-detail' that the benefits were to be heard. A case in point is John Stevens' brush work in John Martyn's 'Solid Air' It was very easy to follow and his light taps on the traps were there in great detail. I played all of my 'test-tracks' and the increase in detail and power were there in abundance. This is the single, most notable, change in my system so far and was so very easy to do. Can't wait to treat upstairs carpets and curtains at the weekend. Plus, as I still have some Smart Metal left, so I can do the lights and plugs. I'll keep you all posted.
6th May 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Room Treatments.
One of our customers has recently asked me the following question "I have a friend who is not happy with the sound of his audio equipment in his room. He has already tried some of the usual acoustic treatments without success. He is still not happy with his sound. I am planning on 'treating' his room for him and wonder what P.W.B. treatments you would suggest."
Because I believe that this situation may be one which quite a few of our customers will, at some time, find themselves in I have copied below my reply to this question.
I would be interested to hear how other customers have got on in circumstances similar to the one described above.
I don't think that your friend's problem is necessarily an acoustic problem.
If you are going to try to 'treat' his room, then I would suggest that, initially, you use devices which can be easily applied and removed. So that you can apply a device, both of you listen, agree that the sound has improved to your friend's satisfaction, then remove the device and listen again - to confirm that the sound had actually improved.
I would suggest applying sections of Spiratube around ALL cables in the room - even cables which are not associated with the audio equipment.
Also make up some of the small disc magnets (by applying a tiny amount of Smart Metal to the surface) as Brian has just described on our chat forum Then just attach the 'treated' magnets to all steel or iron objects.
Also, if you have some of the CCU 'treated' safety pins for attaching to carpets, curtains and upholstery, then use some of those around the room.
Take your Red 'x' Pen with you and some of the small standard white address labels. Get your friend to sign his name on these labels and attach them to items of the audio equipment and also to a number of other things in the room - including all shelves.
Apply a small amount of Cream-Electret to the corner of windows, mirrors, TV or computer screens etc..
If your friend stores his collection of CD etc. in the same room, then treat just a few with the standard Rainbow Foil strips and see if he can hear any improvement in the sound. If he can hear an improvement in the sound, then he can do his whole collection at his leisure, knowing that it would be well worthwhile to do so.
Has your friend tried the freezing/slow defrost technique ? Again, this is something he can do himself, at leisure if he realises just what improvements in the sound he can achieve.
Have you, yourself, tried experimenting with the quarter round wooden doweling pieces ? All you need is 5 cms long pieces of quarter round wooden doweling. Cream them with Cream-Electret and apply them to all right angles in the room. To conduct experiments, you can attach them temporarily using a removable adhesive such as Blu Tack.
I think taking the whole thing slowly is the best way. If you have success treating your friend's listening room, then I would extend the treatment to other adjacent rooms i.e.. kitchen, study etc..
When the audio journalist Paul Benson would visit people to 'P.W.B. treat their equipment and rooms, he would take a similar selection of devices with him and try various devices in a number of different places to see which worked best for those particular people. Obviously Paul did not have the most recent devices such as the Quantum Clip etc. but he was able to achieve excellent results with the devices which were available to him at that time.
6th May 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: Room Treatments.
It may be a good idea to find out what CDs are owned by both parties, so that an AB comparison can be made between an untreated and a treated CD.
8th May 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: Thoughts and ideas for the Q Clip
Hello all, I have now double frozen, Green Creamed and Clipped, CDs that had been previously double frozen with just SR foil and El. Cream. Big jump in presence and volume, even better when CD's are treated with a couple of drops of Morphic Liquid, re Clipped before playing.
I store my Clip, Tweezers, and sample of Green cream in a old fashioned, hinged spectacle case, comfy fit and small enough to travel around with me.
Also, when planning to go the cinema for the first time since finding P.W.B. (World's Fastest Indian-worth seeing if your into motorbikes or racing in general!), I thought about how to take some treatments with me. Finally came up with the idea of a pair of clear plastic safety glasses-only had El.Cream and foil at that stage-seemed to enhance sound in the cinema-although with a smidge of green cream and clipped and frozen...........
20th May 2006 From: Kevin Kehoe
Subject: Memory Foil
I took delivery of a further order of Memory Foil this morning and have just this minute concluded a foiling and listening session. As all the major items of electrical equipment around the house have already been treated, this strip was to be for the treatment all the items that I, in my infinite wisdom, considered 'lesser' evils in the home environment.
I think everyone now has at least one of those little power plugs that contain, amongst other components, a transformer. They are used for charging mobile phones and other devices that require a low voltage dc supply. This morning, I counted eight of those little monsters around our house quietly playing havoc with our sensory abilities. I cut some strips of Memory Foil and treated the lot! Of course, I didn't realise how much they were debilitating the senses until I played some music after the treatment session. I think it sufficient to say that I was quite pleased with the result. I still have to learn the lesson that it is not just the larger items of electrical equipment that require treatment, the smaller items are just as potent in their abilities to confuse the senses.
25th May 2006 From: John Nicholls
Subject: Inside Foil - a review
I have just taken delivery of a strip of inside foil and used it all up in one hit so I feel I can give a review of said foil.
I listened to a whole CD (Damien Rice O)
I used a total of 70 pieces of foil around the house. I treated the inside of the toilet cisterns, waste bins, behind the bath panel, electricity meter box and fuse box, bathroom cabinets, box framed pictures, wardrobe, chest of drawers, inside the multigym frame and treadmill - and the freezer plus one piece under the foot of my CD player and amp power supply . I ran out before I could get to the kitchen cabinets !
Then I sat down to listen again at the same levels as before. Better - oh yes much more micro detail and what I would describe as being able to hear into the emotion of the music better. Its like more of my senses are being affected by the music. As I type this in the office Miles Davis is in the living room - and I mean he is IN the living room so I'll just make him a cup of tea then, its only polite to do so !
Was it worth £100 ?
An absolute bargain my friends
29th May 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: Thanks Tom
Thanks to Tom Marsden, I took up your suggestion of Hard wiring my speaker wires to the Amplifier circuit board. I removed the plastic red and black terminal box and desoldered standard wiring from the circuitboard. I used my homemade 30 gauge speaker wire, smart metalled directly to the circuit board. It took just about all day, mainly because I kept checking and rechecking before cutting etc..., having never soldered onto a circuit board before.
Result: Excellent! just a more detailed, in your face ,realistic sound. Perhaps made more enjoyable by the fact that I had successfully tackled what was for me, very delicate electronic surgery. One small caveat- I performed the surgery on a well treated Koda KD260 80 watt Amp. (Aust.$150) Not much to lose if my soldering wasn't up to scratch!
1st June 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Free Update for some
Emerging from one of those frantic periods of life-events and overwork, I questioned P.W.B. about the universal qualities of Electret Cream, as one does. 'Surely, there are Foils such as Freeze Effect and Present Foils that cannot be treated with this cream?' (I avoided discussion of those I knew to need a coloured cream, although was sorely tempted.) Peter thought, tested and came back to me. Now I do not know whether the original thinking was that these Foils did not need Electret Cream to be very good, and haven't had the time to go back through the Newsletters to find out, but I certainly didn't apply the cream to those particular Foils in my home in the past Peter then said that Electret Cream would 'improve' the effect of both of these later Foils. I put down the phone, and carried out the most rapid smear, tap and test procedure you can imagine. And guess what, a really big lift to sound and vision occurred, leaving me with a big grin.
One aspect to all of this is tapping. The Freeze Effect Foil came with a very small jar of brown liquid (?Bistro?......) which when frozen is used to activate the Freeze Effect Foil. Usually repeated tapping in the world of P.W.B. helps. (At one point I used to dial my own land-line telephone number and tap the mouthpiece with the Red 'X' Pen weekly. It really seemed to help.) Now I haven't done a test yet to ascertain how much of the effect is due to re-tapping, but that would not be so relevant for the Present Foil anyway.
But whatever the mechanism, this was a really lovely surprise, and if you have ever tried these Foils, do try it. You may be very surprised.....
1st June 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Love thy neighbour...
Bouts of extreme Clipping have shown us all that these is nothing so noble and self-fulfilling than treating that which is not thine own.
We have two lovely neighbours, who really know and enjoy their music but listen to it on a 1970s system. It wasn't too bad, but not what one could hope for.
Changes in our family made available an old 'treated' system of mine from the 1990s (Pioneer A400 etc.) and it was heading for a major re- cycle when we decided to offer it to our neighbours. They were thrilled, and I got to demonstrate to them the benefits of Clipping.
They were wise enough to contain their disbelief as the sound of Karajan playing Beethoven's Seventh from 1962 blew us all away. "That's better!" (This is the sort of blind-testing, where they would not entertain any physics, have no interest in Hi-Fi, and are certainly not suggestible. Compare that with testing at a Hi-Fi show...) I only did some modest things, but all really helped.
But guess what, the sound at home went up a notch!
Should I give them Spiratube for Xmas?
1st June 2006 From: Mark Kirby
Subject: RE: Free Update for some
Very interesting. I'm wondering if Electret Cream would benefit Morphic Message
foils as well. Or Inside Foils (a favorite of mine). Is the cream that versatile?
1st June 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: Free Update for some
Clearly you are in for a pleasant surprise!
Electret Cream goes on...
Rainbow, Green & Red - 'x' Film - Black 26 - Blue Z - Safe Hole - New Type Communication - Comfort
Quantum Rainbow Foil - Frosted - Freeze Effect - Present Foils
Clear Films - Grey Clip Film
Inside Foil should have Green Cream applied, and others such as Inverted, Aluminium/Copper, Retro and Memory Foils have their own procedures/coloured creams.
Yet everything can be sprayed with Morphic Liquid....
If there is any error in this list, please correct me Mrs B.
PS After applying the cream, tap the Foil with the jar....
5th June 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: Re: Free Update for some
I have been in the habit of using the Cream on the silver foils when treating CDs but had not done so on the various other foils and messages on the speakers. A quick spin around those( main pair and the surrounds) and I settled down for a quick listen. On went Elvis Costello's 'I don't want to go to Chelsea' and I just about jumped out of my seat! What dynamics and space! I can't wait to get round the back of the rest of the system but, in the meantime, I'm enjoying my 'new' system.
PS Any recommendations on NZ reds?
5th June 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: Free Update for some
I really had no idea that so many had not realised the near universal application of Electret Cream. When you start to count all those other foils and labels....
The issue of wines is also interesting. A good wine should...
Have a line through the Barcode, and perhaps 'x26'x or signature signed on the bottle with the Red Pen. Spray with Morphic liquid. Smear a trace of Electret Cream and Green Cream onto the glass. Clip the bottle. With these steps, even New Zealand wines become 'palatable'.
I think May also suggests treating the glass which adds more.
But why did they call her Natasha?
5th June 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
You right about treating wine glasses.
There is one thing which some members of the UK audio industry used to do as a 'dinner party thing'. You have two glasses of the same wine. You apply a small piece of Spiratube around the glass stem of one glass , drink some of the wine from that glass and take a drink then from the untreated glass. I predict that you will like the taste from the wine with the Spiratube. Then remove the Spiratube and take another drink of the same wine from the same glass !! I predict that you will no longer like the taste of the wine from that glass. Now, place the piece of Spiratube around the stem of the previously untreated glass and take a drink from that glass. Which ever glass has the Spiratube around the stem will have the best taste - even though it is the same wine, poured from the same bottle !!
The Cream-Electret can be used for a similar experiment - one wine glass with Cream applied to it's stem, the other wine glass left untreated as the control. Our Cream-Electret has been a remarkable product since we first introduced it nearly 20 years ago. I am obviously delighted that people can still gain improvements by using it in areas which they had not previously used it, but I also could weep with frustration that the Cream has never had the world wide recognition that it should have had. For the improvements it can give to an audio system, it should have swept the audio industry like a whirlwind.
13th June 2006 From: Gary Lee
Subject: Cream question
Richard's notes about Cream Electret are very interesting. I have been in the habit of creaming foils when applying them, so I don't know how they work without them. But retapping is interesting. However, rather than the Cream Electret, I almost always use the Quantum Cream since acquiring it. Will the Quantum Cream give essentially the same effect? My impression was that the Quantum Cream was sort of like Cream Electret after a double espresso.
13th June 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: Mains Plug Advice
Hello All, On the weekend I attempted to make a Dummy? Mains plug to block off a spare power point - I removed the active pin altogether and ran a single piece of reefknotted wire between neutral and earth pins- Plugged it in and it tripped the safety switch .Have I connected things incorrectly?
Any advice gratefully accepted,
From the desk of P.W.B.
We DO NOT recommend that anyone connects any of the pins of an AC power plug in any combination. This is a very dangerous practice !! If you want to treat any free AC power sockets, we recommend the use of the plastic Blanking plugs which are sold to prevent children poking things into open, unused AC power sockets. These can be treated with Foils, Cream and then Quantum Clipped. We have found these very effective in our own system.
Here is to safe P.W.B.-ing.
13th June 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: Cream question
I may need to be corrected, but I believe Electret Cream and Quantum Cream are now the same. Any discernible difference may be chemicals elsewhere....
Subject: Re: Mains Plug Advice
I have often thought about using the plastic blanking plugs in the way described. It seems much safer than any other use of mains plugs.
14th June 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: Mains plug clarification
Hello All, I think you misunderstood my post, Richard, or rather, I didn't make myself clear- I used a real mains plug, with brass pins and when I used a single run of coated wire between neutral and earth pins (active pin removed) the safety switch on the fuse box tripped immediately-Can anyone advise of the correct way to block off unused powerpoints?
15th June 2006 From: Gary Lee
Subject: Plug note
Michael, May's advice seems to be good. I have used the plastic blockers she noted in all empty plugs in the house. First they are frozen and then some cream used on them. A few have had the 'x 26 'x Morphic message applied. They are very inexpensive, only a pound/$2 or so here in the U.S. for a dozen of them. Very appealing to my thrifty nature.
Richard, you may be right about the Cream Electret and Quantum Cream being the same. I view you as the resident expert about all things P.W.B., May and Peter excluded. With that in mind, it still seems curious that the Cream Electret is offered in one size only, and the Quantum Cream offered in a small and regular size. There is also a slight price difference. Has that changed recently? I'm not doubting the veracity of your post, merely curious as to the details noted.
And to whom it may concern, what does the Inside Foil look like? I can't remember what foils I have. Have the pictures of the Foils been posted? There was talk of that at one point.
15th June 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: Mains Plug cont'd
Thanks May, my order of Cream and SR Foil arrived today after being detained and inspected by customs for a couple of days-that's twice my orders have been checked by customs - modern paranoia is a worrying thing!
Thanks also Gary, I had tried a few of the plastic mains blockers previously-with no noticeable improvement in sound, although I did use them straight out of the packet without any Belting. On a different note, re: treating environment vs equipment-I have consistently noticed major perceptive improvement after treating various areas of my Hi-Fi equipment, and just as consistently noticed very little or no improvement when treating various other areas of my flat-having said that though, I still RED X Pen every barcode that comes in the front door, amongst other belt related activities. I have a feeling this could be that my ears perhaps just aren't tuned to the smaller increases. Regardless, I shall continue with the delightfully odd Belting rituals which I really enjoy doing.
15th June 2006 From: John Nicholls
Subject: Inside foil - filling the void - questions and advice needed please
During my recent adventures with Inside foil I encountered a number of inside spaces that I couldn't get to with the foil and this got me to thinking about how to deal with them.
My house has many stud walls each of which contains a void, this is a fairly common thing in the UK. Other areas are in bathrooms where the plumbing is boxed in and tiled over, and there are also areas where the builder decided to box things in to make it easier for him. The ceiling is vaulted and plasterboarded over insulation i.e. I don't have a loft to get to the insulation etc..
My question is has the area of enclosed voids been addressed in P.W.B. history, and or has anyone got any suggestions as to how to treat them ?
I was thinking in terms of maybe a rawplug with a piece of inside foil attached which could be inserted into the wall and filled over.
Any thoughts ??
Subject: Re: Plug note
Inside foil is a silver foil with a very highly reflective surface like a hologram made up of lots of dots. It can be easily identified as it also has a black stripe down the centre line of the foil. Thus each 2mm strip will have a black stripe in the middle. The backing paper it is on also has the brown stripe so it can even be identified from behind.
15th June 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Filling the void.
I would avoid drilling holes anywhere near where there may be internal piping or cabling so I would suggest putting a strip of Inside Foil on the outer surface of the enclosure. It will be effective - only not as effective as if it was inside.
However, in the areas such as boarding over insulation etc. where there will not be any hidden pipes or wiring, then your suggestion of inserting a raw plug and putting a strip of Inside Foil inside the raw plug would be the best solution.
15th June 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Foil descriptions
What a coincidence. I was just completing a description of the various Foils.
If you go to our web page, click on Product heading. Then at the top of the Product Page, you will find links to the Product images and P.W.B. Foil descriptions.
15th June 2006 From: Gary Lee
Subject: Foil descriptions
Thanks to May for the posting of the Foil descriptions. They are invaluable for those of us who occasionally might need a bit of assistance in recall.
19th June 2006 From: Geoff Kait
Subject: A little trick with Clip:
A little trick with Clip:
For those fortunate enough to own the Quantum Clip, here's a little trick taken from a page of P.W.B. Newsletter somewhere, or perhaps from the P.W.B. Yahoo Group archives.
This trick concerns the clothes closet (please don't laugh). This trick requires nothing more than clipping all tags on clothing, clipping all articles of clothing (including socks, etc..), clipping all shoes, clipping all frames and drawers/shelves, finally clipping all clothes-hangers.
See, that wasn't so bad.
Oh, be sure you're sitting down when you first listen to something on the system.
19th June 2006 From: Chris Porada
Subject: RE: Bybee purifiers
I came across some discussion on devices called Bybee purifiers, and am wondering if these perhaps work in a similar "quantum realm" to the devices of P.W.B. based on the manufacturer's explanations, and if any P.W.B.'ers have tried using these in conjunction with P.W.B. devices, and what they have found.
22nd June 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: Scrolling down to read the whole post!
Hello all, Last night, I was looking through some recent posts, and have only just seen May's postscript to my Mains plug Advice post-I feel like a bit of a dill (Aussie slang for idiot. My apologies to Richard and in future I shall scroll down to read the whole post!
Good advice indeed May!- I nearly s*** myself when the safety switch tripped, I will try the treated plastic plugs ASAP
22nd June 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Re: Bybee purifiers
We personally have not had experience with the Bybee purifiers. As I am understanding, it is claimed that they 'deal with' electrons !!
From a P.W.B. viewpoint, we would regard them as yet another thing, if introduced into the environment, which would need to be 'P.W.B. treated' !!!
22nd June 2006 From: Chris Porada
Subject: RE: treating the inside of speakers from the outside
Yesterday I made a dumb mistake and am wondering if anyone can make a suggestion on how to correct it. I changed out the capacitors in my tweeter circuit for some hand-made Jensen oil-filled caps to try to sweeten the sound, and was so excited/nervous about the electronic aspects of the project that I forgot to P.W.B. the cap's [argh!!!] before sealing up the whole speaker again (not a simple task since to reach the crossovers of my DIY speakers I had to saw a hole in the back of the cabinet and then re-seal it with weather stripping and caulk). Is there any way to treat the caps from outside the speaker, i.e.., with a Jensen caps produce outstanding sound label on the back of the speaker cabinet or something like that, since I really don't relish the thought of having to take apart the hole speaker cabinet again? I did remember to put inside foil in the cabinet and a picture of the dog with an aspirin (I put these things while waiting the few days for the cap's to arrive in the mail.
Thanks for any help.
24th June 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Treating the outside of speakers.
What you really need Chris is the P.W.B. Red 'x' Pen and the associated Gold Foil for writing your own Morphic Messages.
Then you can write a label saying JENSEN CAPS PRODUCE OUTSTANDING SOUND > O.K. as well as similar worded labels but using the Brand Names of each different piece of equipment and so treat all your pieces of equipment and, (don't forget) other items of equipment such as TVs, video recorders etc..
27th June 2006 From: Arkie Martherus
Subject: Re: treating the inside of speakers from the outside
Is another idea to buy another Jensen capacitor of the same type, treat this one with everything you have, and put it into your freezer? Since it "resonates" with the other two, it should help. O.K. knowing the prices of Jensen caps, this might be expensive... So. another idea: find a picture of your Jensen cap, treat this picture, and put it into the freezer Taking it out of the freezer again, should deteriorate the sound.
Of course we will all be interested in your findings!
30th June 2006 From: Gary Lee
Subject: Treating equipment
Thank you, May, for that Morphic Message suggestion. I always wonder what message to use for equipment and going beyond 'x 26 'x, etc.. Now I know. And just in time. I'm currently treating a pair of speakers. Fortunately, things are being treated inside before being sealed. But I will double check, just to be sure.
2nd July 2006 From: Chris Porada
Subject: RE: Re: treating the inside of speakers from the outside
Thanks for the great suggestions. Unfortunately, the two Jensen caps had already nearly "broke the bank", so I had to go with your second suggestion involving the photos. Luckily, I had taken photos of the whole crossover before I put it back in the speakers, since I had never seen something like the Jensen capacitor (it's almost as big as a soda can even though it's only an 8uF cap). So, I "treated" the picture of the whole crossover with messages using my red Staedler pen (I still need to buy the real red-x-pen!), rubbed cream Electret on the photo, placed a piece of Real foil and one of Rainbow foil on the photo, and placed the photo in my "picture bag" in the freezer. This made a very noticeable improvement in sound, such that it no longer seemed like I was listening to a stereo, but rather, to music. The soundstage was significantly deepened, extended beyond the front wall of my room, and details that I had not heard before were now as clear as day. It is like being enveloped in a field of sound. I am planning to take some pictures of the rest of my equipment and all the drivers on my speakers and see what happens if they are placed in the freezer. I'll let you know how things sound. In the meanwhile, I really need to think about buying the real Red pen, because I would presume the benefits would be much more pronounced than with my cheap Staedler.
4th July 2006 From: Arkie Martherus
Subject: Re: treating the inside of speakers from the outside
This is superb news for everyone!
Wonder if there would be any room left in the freezer for food, because we will now be photographing EVERYTHING :) ;) (I have to confess that I also use just an ordinary red Staedtler
pen, which I creamed, foiled, signed and froze by the way. I bought two of them so that I could sign the one with the other, and cross the 'barcode'.)
6th July 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: Re: treating the inside of speakers from the outside
Arkie and Chris,
Keep those tips a comin', I say.
I have bought a Red Pen and was getting worried about it wearing out. So far most of my pen efforts have been on equipment, labels and CDs. Thinking about tackling other things such as those that I call the 'transient' stuff ( food, toiletries and newspapers etc..) I really didn't want to be 'wasting' precious ink on those. I guess that, if I get a bog-standard pen from WH Smith's, and P.W.B. treat it as best as I can, then this should save me using the proper pen on those items that are only in the house for a relatively short period of time. I appreciate that it will probably not be as effective as the proper pen but it should, hopefully, go some of the way to helping.
6th July 2006 From: Brian Hannen
I was intrigued by your mention of Bybee purifiers and so spent some spare time at work looking at the Web on the subject and also, while I was there, looking at Shun Mook accessories, Geoff Kait's Clever Little Clock and Brilliant Pebbles plus a whole lot of other tweaks. All very interesting and mostly accessed via ' The Stereophile' Web-site and some Audio Forums.
The Bybee stuff was readily accepted and great store was given to the fact that Jack Bybee used to do things electronic for the US Navy. Now, I do not wish to denigrate the man, or his abilities, but it's the same old story of 'Oh yes, there's a scientific explanation to hand, that's alright then.' The other stuff was tried and tested and opinions were polarised, as usual. Where there was no 'scientific explanation' to hand some people just could not accept that the objects were of any use and it was also clear that many of the forum contributors had not used the items themselves. Now, where have we heard that before?
I won't be going down the Bybee route. I have other plans, more of which later.
What I did find along the way is that ' The Stereophile' site puts all the other audio magazines web-sites into the shade. There is a wealth of information there and they seem to want to share it. The other mags seem to want to get you to buy back-copies and have very paltry information on site.
7th July 2006 From: Gary Lee
Subject: Red X Pen
I also view the Red X Pen as very valuable and don't waste it on crossing out barcodes on cereal boxes, etc... So I get a Staedler pen and do a bit of treating on it for everyday uses. It works very well for such common uses. The real pen is used for Morphic messages and more permanent needs. That way other P.W.B. devices can be ordered instead of just replacing the Pen as often.
7th July 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: Red X Pen
Thanks for that. Next time I'm in the shop I'll get a Staedler pen.
I mentioned Bybee in another mail and suggested that I might take another route. What I have done is to borrow from my friendly dealer ( Audio T) an Isotek Orion Power Conditioner and see what it does for my system. This unit got a very good review in this month's Hi-Fi News. The cost is £320 so it will need to be very good indeed. Of course, if I buy it, I will P.W.B. treat it as much as I can. I have left it for a day or so to 'burn in' and will report back later. Does anyone else out there use a power conditioner?
Last time I was in Audio T I was talking to Nick about P.W.B. He looked incredulous but , when I went into pick up the Orion, I loaned him my treated copy of 'The Fifth Element' DVD for him to compare at home with his copy. I await feedback.
14th July 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: On the road to Downgraditis
Hello All, just thought I'd fill you in on my journey to an ultimate goal of a AUSSIE $600 complete system (app. 250 UK pounds) I started with a Koda 80 watt integrated amp (A$130) which has been heavily treated and double frozen twice. Then I also hard wired my own 30 gauge single strand speaker wire directly to the amp circuit board. The sound is incredible and this el cheapo amp easily outperforms a A$800 Marantz amp .(treated but not frozen)
Next step was the speakers-These are A$50 50 watt bookshelf speakers, which I completely rebuilt-a local repair shop replaced the tweeter with a higher spec Peerless unit and redesigned and made a new crossover. The 5" mid bass driver was replaced with a Peerless high definition unit. I wanted to use the 30 gauge wire internally, and thought, why not hardwire the speaker cable to the crossover directly. To achieve this I had to turn the crossover inside out. I simply unscrewed the binding post plate and turned it around, so it's now sticking out the rear of the box! Incidentally, this also increases the volume of the speaker box. To keep everything to an absolute minimum, I did the following- starting with the empty speaker box I put marks on the rear of the box lining up with speaker terminals with the drivers in place-then drilled 2 small holes for the bass driver wires, the same for the tweeter wires. I used the 30G magnet winding wire bare, except for the varnish coating- Two lengths of wire were tinned and smart metalled to speaker terminals, then fed through the two holes in the back of the box, the speaker screwed into place, the wires pulled tight, cut, tinned and smart metalled to crossover.
The total cost of these new speakers AUS$350 - they offer a dramatic improvement over the original setup and give my A$1600 floorstanders a fair challenge!
As I write this, both bookshelf speakers have been clingwrapped and are chilling in the freezer-can't wait till Monday when they will be hooked up again-All drivers, crossover bits, boxes and wiring have also been heavily treated with Electret Cream, Foil, Green cream and clipped.
The last step will be to replace my expensive Denon DVD player with a $50 unit from Radioshack.
And there you have it- obviously my system won't sound the same as one costing mega dollars, which is out of my reach- But my goal since finding P.W.B. had always been to build the cheapest, best sounding system possible- Thanks to Peter and May, with ideas taken on board from fellow P.W.B.ites, I am well on my way to budget Nirvana!!!
I will photograph speakers when they thaw out and post a link on the site.
14th July 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Various ideas
It is always great to hear what different ideas people have and what they do with the different products. I thought I'd share a few of what I'm up to, as I find I am sometimes doing something different which may be of interest.
1. The Return of Smart Metal.
I think my last use of this was to use it as a 'jumper' between the terminals of a speaker that could be bi-wired. In that role it was excellent. I had rather spurned using it as solder as I was never the most adept with a soldering iron, but bored by the ever deepening paralysis of the audio industry (still waiting for HDMI/HD Formats to sort themselves out), I am thinking again. What prompted this was consideration of treating a soldering iron to the highest degree. I will post more on this, but I now have a highly treated iron, and am preparing a series of projects from light bulbs to fuses to test the hypothesis that a better iron means better results, irrespective of the Smart Metal. If this goes well, I may venture further into something I have always wanted to do....
A few weeks back I came across an advert on eBay of someone producing a digital cable using P.W.B. techniques. Many of us, I'm sure would love an item of equipment to be treated during assembly so that the benefits reach every part of the piece. I haven't bought the cable, and suspect the treatments might be rather basic, but because they occur at the time of manufacture, might have a very good effect. I then thought I'd ask if there were one good man amongst us who might have a go at producing cables for us to buy. But I eventually settled instead upon the idea of a kit amplifier. I think this will probably be one of those valve ones, and probably more than I want to spend. But if every component had Smart Metal or Creams.... my mouth waters. So that's the idea - I'll keep you informed.
I recently bought a headphone amplifier with a USB socket which connects to a DAC. Using the output from my wife's tiny Laptop, playing Apple Lossless files was so vastly superior to my iPod, that I wanted to explore this further. I am hoping to treat the USB leads, PC, Hard Drive to a much higher degree, but already I am impressed. It raises all sorts of questions, but shows us the future.
I need to confirm the Ring Tie Pattern for USB leads, but the enterprise suggests you can achieve a great deal with a relatively cheap PC, without concerns about jitter/re-clocking (may be done by the DAC though - don't know). I was then thrilled to get a 120Gb portable hard drive to store files on for a third of the price of the 60Gb iPod. Not quite as portable, but pretty good. I am not yet interested in a Server, and it does raise questions. But there are also interesting facts....
What continues to amaze is that the benefit of any disc treatment transfers to the Hard Drive. All those ones and zeros clearly have their limit in affecting me.
3. Green Cream
I just love this stuff. Not cheap by any means, and that tiny jar seems a joke. But the tiniest trace is just amazing. It is the slackers favourite - an answer for those who find using the Clip quite exhausting.
16th July 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Cryo Questions
Don't have any answers to this, but this is the question that goes through my brain. It was partly prompted by May's relatively recent comment on recordable CDs and DVDs. She suggested freezing them first, and then again after recording.
I often think of the item to be treated as an artists canvas. That's right. And when treating an item, we are applying colour, which will eventually reveal the content - aesthetic or emotional - of what we wish to be communicated. The better the original canvas the more vivid the colours - a murky grey one would mute them and diminish our perception of the colours applied, and perhaps mask detail.
And so I have two questions:
1. Should everything be frozen before treatment, essentially cleaning the canvas in my suggested model?
2. Even if the so-called cryogenic treatments at lower than domestic temperatures 'cleaned' the canvas more effectively, would the item still benefit from a domestic freeze after treatment?
This is keeping me awake, and although possible to resolve experimentally, that would involve time and expense, and the possible shattering of my model.
So, as Donny Osmond put it so succinctly in 'Puppy Love', 'Somebody help me, help me please'....
16th July 2006 From: Kevin Kehoe
Subject: Re: On the road to Downgradeitis
When you achieve your ultimate budget system, who knows - it might out perform any high end system you care to name! For years now, I have relied on P.W.B. treatments for all my sound upgrades as I have no chance of affording even modestly priced kit let alone the high end. The only top-notch piece of hi-fi I own is a Linn turntable and Ittok arm. This is now getting old in the tooth but still performs brilliantly. I have nothing against upgrading and, if I had the spare cash, would no doubt now own some very nice looking (and sounding) equipment. As it is, when the time came to do something about my well used £300 moving coil cartridge, I purchased a £50 Goldring moving magnet and gave it the P.W.B. treatments Green Cream, Freeze Treatment, Electret Cream and the Clip. When installed, I even managed to attach a few Foils to the body. It never fails to surprise me just how good this cartridge now sounds it is way ahead of the moving coil even in the areas of perceived moving coil strength, that of open and detailed sound stage. When the CD player popped its cloggs, I purchased the equivalent of the next model down. The dealer managed to sell me a set of interconnects as well at a cost of over £100. If it were today, I would have settled for 'up to the job' connects and spent the rest on Belt treatments for them.
I would also like to thank everyone for the tips it is always a delight to log on to the forum to find another posting on how to squeeze that little bit more listening pleasure from my already very good sounding system.
16th July 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: On the road to Downgradeitis
There are a number of aspects to this.
Firstly whilst treated budget equipment can be staggeringly good, treated high end stuff just blows the mind. It is a difficult question to answer as to how much one spends on P.W.B. devices and much on equipment, especially when the treatment of say your CDs or car keys may have just as great an effect.
Old products may also be superior to present. The only Hi-Fi Magazine I have time for these days is Hi-Fi World, partly because it compares older products with their current day counterpart. Thus a 1970s speaker may be superior to current models. It is highly dishonourable that the magazines just promote the new. Your Linn may be better than much else now. But this also raises the question of buying second hand items. Given that radical P.W.B. treatments to the inside often blow the warranty, one starts to wonder. There are also many sites that will repair and restore products.
Yet it is also that tiny Sonic T amplifier that blows my mind. I do think digital amplifiers are quite amazing, and still in their infancy.
16th July 2006 From: Chris Porada
Subject: RE: freezing speaker crossovers
I am preparing to pull the crossovers out of my speakers and do some P.W.B. treatments to the various components now that I've heard what simply putting a photo of the crossovers in the freezer can do. I am wondering if anyone knows if it is safe to freeze the crossover components after "Belting". Is this safe for the capacitors? I am especially concerned since some of my capacitors are oil-filled, and I don't know whether the freezer may produce some untoward effects on their structure. Any input/advice would be appreciated.
16th July 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: Downgrading Downunder
Hello, Richard, Kevin and all,
Richard, having just read your post re: your admiration of the Sonic T- Amp, and your plans to purchase a Amp. kit - just last night I read on TNT-Audio website, the complete instructions to replace the Sonic Amp module into a more solid wooden or metal cabinet, including replacing Binding posts and substituting RCA (phono?) output plugs for the standard stereo plug. Perhaps this may be a cheap practice project. Also regarding your post about cables treated during construction, I would be happy to send you a pair of my single strand interconnects to audition, if you like the sound, I could post some photos of how I make them.
Regarding the debate about up vs. downgrading-I suppose in the end it comes down to money. While it is a certainty that a treated high end system will sound better than a treated low-mid system-where does it end? Someone, on a high salary may well be able to spend more on their system, but even they would have an upper ceiling, beyond which they could not afford the components, so they could quite possibly be dissatisfied with a mega dollar system (even highly treated) and thinking if only I could get those $300,000 Wilson speakers or that handmade Japanese $100,000 CD player!!!
I realise that my system has many faults (no remote for the volume etc...) but I just get a real kick from sitting back and being gobsmacked by the quality of sound coming from a system that has absolutely no right to sound as good as it does.
I am only a few hours away from unwrapping the cling film on my speakers after a double freeze, and I can hardly wait-I remember Richard's comment on a post or newsletter about his perception that frozen speakers seemed to disappear, so freezing the whole speaker box, should be impressive.
17th July 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: freezing speaker crossovers
I do not have the knowledge or equipment to comment on how specific items function after freezing in a domestic freezer (down to -26 degrees), but so far everything I have frozen works, and I experience it as better than before. I always worry more about moisture, but it never seems to be a problem.
One other thought though. If you are anxious, just use creams, possibly Smart Metal, and the Clip. Then focus on what you have in the environment that has not been frozen. It is all too easy to focus on the electrical equipment, and forget plant pots.
For whatever reason, some products seem better pre treatment than others. Of course some manufacturers (Naim springs to mind) spend ages tweaking and listening to their designs, and may stumble on P.W.B.-esque processes by accident. What makes a good design a good design has yet to be understood. Those hand-made Japanese products tell us so. But it is possible to have an extraordinary experience from very, very cheap products, hence my enthusiasm for the Sonic-T. I'm not sure about a box, but mine soon received a series of Foils. In the UK, it is almost possible to build a fantastic system using this amp, some JBL Control 1s (hugely discounted now) and a mobile phone for less than £100. I can rip my treated CDs onto a phone, and the benefits of the treated disc pass onto the phone memory!
I am not quite sure what to do with kit-amps and cables just yet, but thanks for the offer of the cable. When I am clearer about where I am heading, I may well take you up on your offer.
And is the cling film off yet....?
17th July 2006 From: Kevin Kehoe
Subject: On the road to Downgradeitis
What never ceases to amaze me, through the use of P.W.B. Treatments, is the sheer quantity of musical information that is available from relatively modest priced equipment. I'm sure that the same treatments, applied to top end kit and combined with a well treated environment would be the icing on the cake. Having said that, even if the funds were available to do some serious upgrading, I think I would be loath to part with any of the items that make up my present system as they have seen me through some truly momentous sound lifts. I would equate it to a musician's reluctance to part with a favourite guitar. Over the last few years, the system has taken to positively crackling with the qualities that makes listening to music so addictive. Any high end users out there with similar levels of Belt treatments must be in heaven!
I do love the idea though, of treating truly modest equipment such as the Sonic T amp or a complete system, as Michael is presently involved in. Just how good can it get? If our cheapo playback system in the kitchen is any guide, very good indeed would be the answer and the kitchen system has only been modestly treated. I look forward to further postings of your results Michael.
18th July 2006 From: Bill Hunt
Subject: RE: Downgrading Downunder
I would also like to record my thanks to Richard about the T amp, as his comments about the sound qualities of this decidedly "low rent" unit led me to purchase one, simply out of a combination of idle curiosity and the fact that I was so brassed off with the Sony "system" in place in the East Coast friend's caravan (which I and my dog take over as our den on our visits) that I was interested in a portable amp to minimise the damage to my mood and temper...
Though pretty ghastly on first firing up the T amp, I have been conditioned to long running-in periods (have owned a lot of equipment containing profligate Black Gate capacitors!) and so let it work itself into it's musical groove, checking at 100 hr. periods on the results thus far... 400 hrs saw the unit principally stabilised, with progressive detail changes until about 700 hrs...
Was it worth it?... Hell, yes!... I did, however, note that the sounds from this amp are very revealing, and clearly demonstrates the different sonic qualities of the other components used in the audio system... This could no doubt be a mixed blessing!...
Having been inspired by the sounds heard from the T amp to purchase a well-regarded "Charlize" module containing a similar Tripath chip, I have fitted this module into a case and wired it up to decent connectors, and found it an enjoyable and rewarding experience... Despite the supplied amp's in-built disadvantages of under-sized input capacitors and VERY cheesy connectors it STILL outperforms the Charlize in sound-staging if not in other areas, so I will also be re-boxing the T amp soon (and incorporating the "stealth" mod. of input capacitors shown on the Michael Mardis Sonic Tripath web-site) and will be interested to see the results when the T amp has the original tiny 0.33uf SMD input capacitors replaced with the absolutely ENORMOUS 2.2uf Obbligato film & foil items I have waiting for use...
With such comparatively good results available for such little cash and the opportunity for some relatively inexpensive fine-tuning (read threads in "Class D" on diyaudio.com!), the T amp really does put a lot of the fun back into hi-fi and provides a very welcome alternative to the apparently normal practice of the purchase of nicely packaged but often ultimately unrewarding audio components...
Perhaps not surprisingly in the light of the above, my reaction to you considering re-boxing the T amp as a first project is "GO FOR IT!!..."...
For bringing the T amp to my notice from your comments in this forum, Richard, you have my eternal thanks!...
Fellow P.W.B. member (and one of my regular correspondents) Gary Lee was in turn prompted by my comments to purchase a T amp, and when last heard had now purchased FOUR of these units!... Not surprisingly, he reported further musicality improvements on the fully run-in amp after a session carefully applying P.W.B. films and creams...
(I have not yet persuaded the lady wife that vast quantities of food could be allowed to be displaced from the freezer to allow for a couple of speaker freezing sessions, but I live in hope!)...
Oops!... I had better get some more work done!... Another chunk of lunch-hour will have to be sacrificed...
18th July 2006 From: Michael Parin
Subject: Frozen Speaker Update
Hello Kevin, Richard and All,
Firstly, Richard, I also meant no malice or criticism of any one group of people (namely those with money to spend in my rave on upgraditis-it is only through a lifetime of impulsiveness and bad decisions that I find myself only able to afford the lower spectrum of Hi-Fi.
Having said that though, I feel one of the positives of downgrading is that you have less to lose should you stuff up your equipment- couldn't see myself modifying a system that costs mega bucks! Http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j232/insideoutspeakers/rear1.jpg Above is a link (don't know why it isn't highlighted?) to a picture of my modified speaker-If you highlight it and paste into address bar ,it will take you to it-hopefully!!!
Firstly, my frozen speakers worked, when I unwrapped and resoldered the speaker cables to them-so freezing doesn't adversely affect crossover components-though just to be sure I wrapped them in several layers of clingwrap.
Secondly, does anyone out there want to buy a pair of Vaf DC7 Floorstanders ? - When I decided on the radical rewiring and freezing of the el cheapo bookshelf speakers, I thought of it as a mere experiment, that in a short time I would return to listening to the VAF's- Well after freezing, these $350 midget (5"woofer) speakers come so close to the sound of the VAF's that I can see no reason to stop using them.
The sound of the midgets after freezing-definitely clearer, less shrillness in the high range, enhanced bass, and overall a more REAL sound-rather like you have front row seats at the show, as opposed to listening to recorded music-All in all a very successful experiment. Below is a link to a picture of my homemade interconnects http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j232/insideoutspeakers/cables1.jpg
18th July 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: Downgrading Downunder
Thanks Bill, although it is a real pleasure to introduce someone to a true giant killer, and the T Amp shows us what other people aren't getting right.
It is a shame the case and socketry are not better, but then I cannot really be bothered to do much with the innards. So my approach was partly P.W.B. and partly electrical.
I was given to understand that a decent power supply made quite a difference - I bought one in the end that cost more than the T Amp, but it was worth it.
But of course the main interest was what P.W.B. devices could do. I hope I am accurate in saying this, but I largely confined myself to placing strips of each type of Foil in the battery compartment, then adding the creams, signing with Red pen (no space for Gold Foil I could see), then Spraying, Clipping and Freezing. Of course you could do less, but I remain very pleased with what I have, and feel little urge to 'upgrade'.
What I might do is take a look beneath the bonnet over the summer, and see what else might be achieved. The joy is that even if I break it, it won't break the bank. At thinkgeek.com, it remains $29.99.
I have a further idea, of which I will share more when I have consulted with a person of importance.
18th July 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: Frozen Speaker Update
Quite agree about the lifetime of not so much impulsive as compulsive buying. I was a slave to the reviews, and rather regret much. Mind you it was a Hi-Fi Magazine that introduced me to Peter's products - indeed some came free with a copy.
Anyway, pleased that your freezing experiment worked so well. There is also something about smaller, simpler products that seems easier to get right, and get good sound from. But if you are feeling bold, you might want to think about what could be achieved with the DC7s, although the bigger they are, the more treatments they might need.
Nice pictures too - very neat Interconnect.
19th July 2006 From: Bill Hunt
Subject: RE: Re: Downgrading Downunder
Re re-boxing of the T amp, I hesitate to mention the obvious consideration that not only do you get the opportunity to choose a housing to specifically suit your temperament and decor and to use connectors worthy of that description, but you also get the opportunity for lots more space to apply P.W.B. treatments!...
20th July 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Re: Downgrading Downunder
Yes I do appreciate that - I know I can do more. Curiously, given my interest in using a Hard Drive as a music source, I have had on trial from Russ Andrews in the UK, one of his RAVE amplifiers, which is also T Class. It costs £150, but has a USB sockets for its DAC. At a about one tenth of the cost, my treated Sonic T amplifier walked all over it. It's going back - nice case and good socketry or not.
20th July 2006 From: Bill Hunt
Subject: RE: Re: Downgrading Downunder
Ha!... T class the "RAVE" might be, but in terms of quality (rather than quantity), it's the amps with the smaller and less powerful chips that seem to get the most positive comments... It's a good job we have fairly sensitive speakers!...
Yet another case, perhaps, where (as with P.W.B. creams?) the best things seem to come in small packages...
Planning on using a Hard Disk as source?... Don't forget to minimise EMI/RFI!....
Not being overly impressed with the portable audio results from (rather expensive!) iPods, etc.., at present I am investigating the sonic potential of a disgracefully inexpensive portable CDP (which certainly DOES have
enough space for appropriate creams and foils!)... Results thus far?... Encouraging!...
I hope you are having a good day...
21st July 2006 From: Richard Graham
Subject: Exciting News
By Jove, I think I've done it.
I have been in communication, and I believe the powers that be are willing.
Tomorrow, there will be an announcement.
Watch your screens.
22nd July 2006 From: Richard Graham
The T Amp Improvement Pack
The extraordinary abilities of this tiny amplifier has created an opportunity for those on all budgets to own a high quality system at a very modest price.
The Improvement Pack offers users a sufficient account of 10 superior P.W.B. Foils, with some Morphic Green Cream, to treat the battery compartment of the T Amp, and two speakers. For those who are careful with scissors, the pieces of Foil could be cut into 4, 2.5mm strips, and there would be sufficient Green Cream to treat any batteries or cables.
For the first time, the advanced Foils will be available in a smaller size for this pack, saving the user significant amounts of money were all the Foils to be purchased as whole strips. Using an iPod, or other MP3 player, the T Amp and good efficient speakers you may be astonished by what can be achieved even from downloaded music files.
Although inspired by the opportunities created by the T Amp, the pack could be used to treat any 4 pieces of equipment, again offering the user a taste of a more complete P.W.B. treatment.
Contact May Belt for further details, but it is my understanding that the cost is low (?£35.00). As stated above you not only a piece of each Morphic Message Foil, but also the higher end Foils such as Present and Inside Foils.
24th July 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Portable audio equipment Improvement Pack (P.W.B. Foils)
Portable audio equipment Improvement Pack (P.W.B. Foils).
In response to special requests we are introducing an Improvement Pack for Portable audio equipment such as MP3 players, iPod and Walkman style players, and their external amplifiers such as the T Amp and passive or active speakers.
This new Improvement Pack consists of 10 mm pieces of each of the following six P.W.B. Morphic Message Foils - X Film., Black 26., Blue Z., Comfort., Safe Hole, New Type Communication., PLUS 10 mm pieces of Real Foil, Freeze Effect Foil, Present Foil and Inside Foil. Also included in this new Improvement Pack is a small amount of Morphic Green Cream. The price of this new Improvement Pack is £35. ($62 US dollars, 53 Euros).
Each 10 mm piece of Foil can be cut into 3 strips quite easily or, with luck and dexterity, cut into 4 strips of 2.5 mm - enough strips of Foil to apply one strip of each of the Foils to three or four items of equipment. All our Foils are self adhesive and after the protective backing is removed, the strip of Foil can be easily positioned on an item of equipment. After the strips of Foil have been attached, then a tiny amount of the Morphic Green Cream is applied over each strip of Foil, interfacing it with the object.
On such as the T Amp, a very convenient place to attach all the strips of Foil is in the battery compartment.
As it is also important to 'treat' all the batteries used, we recommend applying a tiny amount of the Morphic Green Cream to a small area of the outer insulation of each battery.
In addition to this new portable audio equipment Improvement Pack we would recommend that further additional and very effective treatments should be considered - such as the near absolute necessity of having a Red 'x' Pen - to at least be able to sign one's initials or name on the items of equipment, or write your own Morphic Messages plus the necessity (if one is going to do any soldering) to have Smart Metal - and those additional devices (Red 'x' Pen and Smart Metal) can then be used to 'treat' so many other items of equipment !
Where safe to do so using the freezing/slow defrost technique on items including the batteries being used will give further improvements in the sound. Also, strips of any other of our Foils which can be added to the items of equipment will add to the beneficial effect.
The £35 "Portable audio equipment Improvement Pack" offer is in addition to the new "Top Up and Trial Foil Pack" at £150 we are also introducing.
Details are given below.
P.W.B. "Top Up and Trial Foil Pack".
In response to special requests from some of our customers we are introducing a "Top-up and Trial Foil" pack of a variety of P.W.B. Foils.
Over the past 20 years, our customers have acquired a certain amount of knowledge and experience in using the various Foils we have introduced. The customers who have been with us from the beginning have experimented with all the Foils and are now at the stage where they have their favourite Foils, have accumulated a selection of their favourite Foils and only now need what they refer to as a "Top-up" Pack of the Foils.
In addition there are a number of newer customers who have not had the experience of experimenting with the earlier Foils, who have expressed a wish to try the earlier Foils, but who find the cost of a full length of each of the earlier Foils daunting. These are the customers who have requested a "Trial Foil" Pack of some of the Foils.
So, we are introducing a combination Foil Pack which we are calling the "Top-up and Trial Foil" pack.
The "Top-up and Trial" Foil pack includes a selection of P.W.B. Foils and is priced at £150 ($263 US dollars, 225 Euros).
The "Top-up and Trial Foil" pack of P.W.B. Foils consists of :-
One third of a length (i.e.. 60 mm) of each of the following six Morphic Message Foils. 'X' Film., Black 26., Blue Z., Comfort., Safe Hole., New Type Communication.,
One half of a length (i.e.. 85 mm) of Real Foil.
One half of a length (i.e.. 85 mm) of any TWO of the following Foils. You can chose which TWO Foils you would like a half a length of from the following
Freeze Effect Foil - Inside Foil. - Copper Foil. - Aluminium Foil. - Inverting Foil. - Present Foil - Retro Foil.
26th July 2006 From: Tom Marsden
Subject: Hi-Fi news
In the August 2006 edition, Hi-Fi Confidential column, page 11. Contributor Janine Elliot states she will try the P.W.B. freezing technique on her amplifier and report her findings in the September edition. I look forward to her findings with great interest. Regards to all .
1st August 2006 From: Paul Rowan
Subject: Greetings to the Group
this is my first post to the forum just to introduce myself as a new member, so please be gentle with me! Although I've just joined, I'm a long time P.W.B. enthusiast. My name is Paul Rowan and I live in Northeast London, about a five minute bus- ride from Richard Graham, although we have never met. I've been reading the posts to the forum for a while and hope I'll be able to contribute something positive to the discussions.
1st August 2006 From: Bill Hunt
Subject: RE: Greetings to the Group
Welcome to the Group!... All are likely to benefit from shared experiences, so don't be backward in relating your own!...
1st August 2006 From: Gary Lee
Subject: Welcome, Paul
It's always encouraging to have a new member. The more the merrier in spreading the Gospel of Belt.
2nd August 2006 From: Ken Hyam
Subject: "iPod" improvement pack
I have been very impressed indeed with the MP3 improvement pack. It brings together a set of P.W.B. foils and cream derived from years of research at a very reasonable price. It is enough to treat three devices. I treated my Creative Audio Zen Vision. The interesting thing is that I was already very pleased with this miniature music/photo library. The sound was good and the pictures too.
I simply wasn't prepared for what happens when you use the improvement pack.
1. The instrument separation increased.
2. The volume was louder at the same setting.
3. The lyrics were much more intelligible.
4. Johnny Cash on Orange Blossom Special was in the peak of his form. I could hear the slight squeak when he touched the bridge of his guitar without yet playing a note, then the notes themselves.
I think the most important overall impression is that the experience of listening was 10 times more enjoyable. This last point is hard to analyse or put into words.
These improvement packs could not have come along at a better time with the ever-increasing popularity of the little music libraries we take everywhere with us.
4th August 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: Hi-Fi news
I also saw the article in the 'new look' HFN. The lady in question is new to the magazine and I have no idea of her hi-fi pedigree. I don't know where the impetus for her experiment with P.W.B. ideas came from, but we can only hope that she is unbiased in her findings.
P.W.B. got a mention (page 62) in last months HFN, it's 50th Anniversary edition. It was in a jocular paragraph entitled 'Smelly socks', the substance of which was that Peter Belt was involved in an experiment with four rooms at the HFN Show. One of the rooms had been Belted and there was some sort of attempt to identify which room was the one that had been treated. Essentially, the experiment failed, as the findings were coloured by the fact that one of the rooms was found to be 'contaminated' by the presence of a pair of very smelly socks, which had been left in the bottom of the wardrobe by the previous occupant! All very funny in the scheme of things but the opening sentence of the paragraph seemed, to me, rather scathing. I quote 'All the really big lies are founded on a grain of truth .'
I don't know whether or not Peter or May recollect the incident. I haven't seen any mention of it on the forum.
On the subject of the forum, may I take the opportunity to welcome Paul. Come on in, the water is warm, the fish are inquisitive and friendly.
Regards to all,
3rd August 2006 From: Michael Barham
Subject: first post....
This is my first posting to this group although, like Paul, I have been using P.W.B.s foils, creams and devices for a number of years. I have been reading the messages posted to this forum for a long time and up until now didn't have anything specific to say. Now I have....
Have recently extended my house and so had massive disruption from builders. They have finally gone and we are slowly getting the house how we want it. So today I have been putting yellow Magnadiscs in all the door frames and have started putting green discs on ceilings, windows and mirrors. I haven't seen many posts about the Magnadiscs and my question is what have other P.W.B. users found to be the most effective place for sticking them on mirrors? Does it have to be on the glass - where they are very obvious? Or could it be on the back of the mirror for example, or on the edge of the frame - where they would be less obvious?
Be very grateful for any advice.
4th August 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: "iPod" improvement pack
I, too, am impressed that P.W.B. have come out with this pack. I will get one just to have the foils for use on places that I've missed. However, the Quantum Foil and Cream takes priority in up and coming purchases.
To date I have shied clear of the MP3 players, but may get one in the near future. I am glad to see that you have the Zen instead of the iPod. After doing a bit of reading up, that would be my choice, too.
Your mention of Johnny Cash reminded me that it's funny how one's tastes in music changes and broadens with age and experience. Johnny and Dino and Nat were all artistes that my parents liked. When I was younger, if it wasn't The Beatles, Stones or anything prog, it wasn't any good. Ah, the arrogance of youth!
I picked up a double CD of Johnny Cash in Fopp a while ago, for the princely sum of £3, having heard some of his more up-to date, Rick Rubin produced, stuff over at Big Rob's. There's some cracking stuff on it .( NB I do draw the line at The Carpenters, though!)
Oh, before I go, I need to mention that I have tried copying an original, frozen and treated disc using a frozen and treated blank and then re-freezing and de-frosting the copy. An A/B session showed that the copy was very good, but not quite as detailed as the original and very slightly lacking in control. Not a huge difference, but one nevertheless.
A question for those of you with cameras. My Canon EOS350D camera is foiled and creamed. I keep an 81B filter on my lenses, firstly to protect the front element from scratches ( it's cheaper to replace a scratched filter...) and secondly, it helps to slightly warm up the images. Has anyone tried using Morphic Liquid on their cameras? What I'm worried about is whether or not there may be any residue left, even after wiping. I'd be grateful for any comments.
Regards to all,
5th August 2006 From: Bill Hunt
Subject: Re: "iPod" improvement pack
Whilst I evidently do not share your approach re photography (my favourite camera - I have 18 - is one of my three 1970s Konica Auto S2s) in that I not only still favour the old-fashioned 35 mm film format, but vastly prefer the handling characteristics of traditional "range-finder" cameras), your query prompted the reaction that I personally would not put any avoidable coating on any surface directly affecting the image seen by the lens...
This leaves the observation that surely there is very large scope for applying Morphic cream or other treatments to just about every other area of your camera... As with the "photo in freezer" scenario, applications apparently have a large physical area where the effects of application are experienced, so with your camera the few inches that would be the largest space between the active camera components and treated areas should surely not present much of a problem?... As always, if others disagree I would welcome hearing their views...
Have happy times, enjoy good music, and take good photographs!...
5th August 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Re: Hi-Fi News
I will try to tell the story (to the best of my recollection) of the four room experiment in the next Newsletter. It was an interesting time in the history of audio. Nowadays, it seems that it is very much like a 'dog worrying at a bone' - the people involved in audio appear to have to mention Peter's name (cannot ignore him) but can only now mention him in terms of dismissing him or ridiculing him.
Yes, it will be interesting to see just how Janine Elliot approaches the subject of P.W.B. techniques and, more importantly, how Hi-Fi News handles what she might have to say if her reaction is positive. It took many months for Jimmy Hughes to get HIS article on Peter's freezing technique published in the Audiophile magazine back in 1993 !!
5th August 2006 From: Brian Hannen
Subject: Re: "iPod" improvement pack
Thanks for your reply. I won't be doing anything to my filters. Better safe than sorry, I suppose. I note what you say about cameras. I have owned 35 mm cameras in the past but have usually sold/traded them in when upgrading and also when I crossed over to digital . I have seen quite a lot of range-finder images in the various mags and they are usually superb.
The digital versus film debate rolls ever on, but that's for another time and place. As an aside, I usually check out photo.net for examples and ideas. There's also The Luminous Landscape.
Happy listening and clicking,
5th August 2006 From: Kevin Kehoe
Subject: Re: first post....
It was Magna Discs and Ring Ties that first alerted me to how important it is to treat the environment as well as the equipment producing the sound and vision. I have many of those Dicsc in use but, I have not had the courage to attach them in quite such a prominent position as the main mirrors about the house. I have so far managed to get away with attaching various Foils to the extreme corners of double glazed windows and even to the margin around the TV screen ours is still the glass tube type I would not attempt this kind of thing on the new plasma type screens or the PC flat screen monitor. Except for the bathroom mirror, where it was possible to attach a disc directly to the back (perfectly acceptable I Believe), I content myself with a treatment of Electret Cream as well as a tiny dab of Green Cream. I have also took on the responsibility of keeping all the mirrors and the TV screen clean, which I do with Morphic Liquid and P.W.B. pen marked tissues followed by use of the Clip. I too would be interested to know if there is anything further that can be done regarding mirrors and glass in general.
The Green discs attached to the ceilings can be improved (and disguised) by attaching a White disc over the top and all hand held remote control units have Red discs attached as well as Black ones (The black ones should always be attached to a separate area and not in contact with any other device). I also have a Red disc attached to an unobtrusive area of all the hot water radiators.
When we moved to our present house almost six years ago, the sound compared to what it was in the previous house (with quite a lot of treatments) seemed thin and diluted with quite a loss of impact. It all came back to normality (and more so) over time as treatments such as those described were carried out.
6th August 2006 From: P.W.B. Electronics
Subject: Re: Magnadiscs
I would suggest that you place the Green Magnadisc on the face of the mirror, or if that is not acceptable then on the rear of the mirror rather than on the frame.
7th August 2006 From: James Takamatsu
Subject: Foil application
What do you find to be the most effective place to attach the Inside foil? I was planning on using it on my CD/DVD player's tray- but should I place the foil on the tray where the disc sits or underneath the tray? Also, in treating a photograph with Real foil, do the foil strips need to be on the image part of the photo or can it be on the blank spaces near the edge?
BTW, by far the best area I've tried the Safe Hole foil was on the inside of the main electrical circuit breaker box cover- great 3-dimensionality and spaciousness to the sound, and vivid, eye-popping images on video (which actually had to be toned-down by treating other surfaces with Cream Electret). The house's breaker box is located outside the home, at the farthest corner from my listening room.
7th August 2006 From: John Nicholls
Subject: Re: Foil application
I have placed the foil on the tray where the disc fits as I figured that then the spinning disc gets the benefit as well as the player -my sound is improved so.....
I tend not to get too hung up about absolute positioning of foils, IMO its more important that the foil is attached to an object thus treating it, rather than where on that object it is attached. The exception to this is of course when I am covering the compact disc or dvd logos on discs with foils.